Cars and bikes I’ve come across in my travels
- Thread starter Alzero
- Start date
Robin Webster
Hero member
- Location
- Silverstone
Not entirely sure the TV crews had a choice. Each year the manufacturers bid for the contract to supply the bikes and use it as a marketing tool as they get lots of exposure during the Tours. Recent years has been BMW and Kawasaki. With a lot of three wheeled Yamahas sitting in warehouses much money would have been spent to get them the exposure and get them to do something rather than just loose stock value sitting in a warehouse..
Andy J
Hero member
- Location
- Isle of Man
AFAIK Robin quite a few riders wanted them and they have proved quite popular with the people who have ridden them. Just still too heavy IMHO, otherwise I may have been tempted as an all weather option.
Alzero
Hero member
- Location
- DaNang Vietnam
There is a lot to be said in favor of a bike that will never lose the front end, no matter what it looks like. Two contact patches separated by 300mm have a very good chance of always finding traction. Piaggio seems to be selling their version to a good many people too.
Yeah... maybe... but... fuckin' big ugly stick.
Motorcycling certainly has its' challenges, those who cannot cope should maybe stay away instead of looking to technical aids of all sorts to disguise their own incapabilities.
Just my $0.02.
piet
The Sock
Hero member
- Location
- London, England
I’ve always wondered what happens when you lose adhesion on the back on one of those.
Is it an immediate highside?
Is it an immediate highside?
Alzero
Hero member
- Location
- DaNang Vietnam
So we should give up anti-lock brakes? On our bikes and our cars? Traction control like Quattro systems? As for incapabilities, what does sand, gravel or ice on the road have to do with riding skills? I’m no racer able to save a crashing bike, never was and never will be, especially as I have passed my 70th year. I submit that any device or aid that allows me to ride longer and safer is to be embraced, not denigrated.Yeah... maybe... but... fuckin' big ugly stick.
Motorcycling certainly has its' challenges, those who cannot cope should maybe stay away instead of looking to technical aids of all sorts to disguise their own incapabilities.
Just my $0.02.
piet
Am I correct that you feel the same way about those losers that use technical aids to disguise their own incapabilities riding in MotoGP? I’m sure that Jorge Martin and Pecco Bagnaia will be surprised to learn that they are not up to the challenges of riding a motorcycle. Please don’t tell Marc Marquez that he can’t cope, he’ll be devastated!
Turn off all his aids and he'll be in the gravel even more often than he is now. NOBODY can fully exploit a 300+hp motorcycle without the various computers trying their best to keep it just within the boundaries of physics. Of course much is still determined by rider/driver skill, but nothing works any more without computers surveilling every imaginable parameter and actively participating whenever necessary. Imho, going back to 500-600cc capacity, doing away with the majority of computer aids and capping power at 150-160hp would make the sport far more attractive (see Moto3), but the industry isn't interested, they want to market their glamorous expensive high-end products. For me, Moto GP has become just as boring as F1, I very rarely bother watching either.
Same goes for modern 200+hp road bikes, if it weren't for all the gizmos, the wannabe Rossis would be tumbling left, right and centre with fatality rates going through the ceiling. Too many wankers on these bikes as it is, might be a good thing for the gene pool... As I see it, people advocating for these missiles are actively stating that road laws are not for them, where on earth can these bikes be exploited? Please tell me of all the roads where one can legally ride at the attainable speeds these vehicles offer? For me, it's racetrack only for them. Not much point in having 200 ponies on tap but only effectively being allowed to use about 25 of them...
Why the industry builds and offers potentially lethal weapons (2- and 4-wheeled, 3?) and then adds dozens of computers to make them half-way streetable is beyond me. Do we really need 400hp to haul our arse to the mall? Are all our dicks THAT small? Does the world need such idiocy? Of course not, but it keeps the world turning and many just cannot give up bragging rights. Average Biker Joe is mostly totally overwhelmed with 70-80hp, so wtf does he buy a 200hp rocketship?
Traction control? What for? To make a stupidly over-powered vehicle more controllable? Case in point... I rode a KTM Duke-something, big single with 75hp, 145kg dripping wet. Traction control kicked in at even moderate acceleration on dry, clean tarmac. Apparently the engine is so savage that it will flip you on your ear at will, the ghastly cosmetics didn't help make it any more attractive to me either. Just fucking de-tune it by 20-odd hp and it may even be fully enjoyable.
Launch control? To effectively be able to T-bone the truck that just ran a red? I need that like I need a pimple on my arse... just another feature/box to tick that the industry has made us believe we need.
The only time I really, really needed ABS in my car, it couldn't/wouldn't have helped me. I was much too fast on a stretch of black ice that I didn't recognise until I started braking for a junction. And no, it was not controllable as the steering was all but ineffective, wheel close to full-lock but the car severely under steering, ie, steaming straight ahead. I only just managed to avoid hitting a very substantial tree at the end of my little excursion, ending up in a ditch. Apart from that incident, I think I've only heard the ABS pump working in ernest about 3-4 times in over 3/4 million kilometres in ABS-equipped vehicles.
I've just turned 68 and now have a total of 56 years of biking under my belt. While I'm most definitely not the fastest, I do think I can be regarded as experienced and I long regard myself as mortal. My annual road mileage stiIl goes well into 5 figures, I can count the times I've fallen on my noggin during those 56 years on the fingers of one hand and thankfully have never seriously hurt myself. Off-road is another story...
When I was learning the ropes, there was such a thing as "reading the road", ie, watching for damp patches, sand, gravel, pot holes, tram lines, other road users, etc, etc. A motorcyle rider is first and foremost dependant upon himself. ABS won't help you when you're leaned over at speed and hit a patch of sand, neither will traction or launch control or any other hi-tech gizmo. Only thing stopping you will be the ditch, tree or fence, or lightning quick reactions... maybe. The safest and surest method of survival is not being too fast and adapting to road conditions in the first place. Simply ignoring all around and fully depending on gizmos to keep you out of trouble is a little naive. Seen that all too often!
Because just about anybody that manages to dress themselves in the morning, can write their name and count to 3 is issued a drivers licence these days, many technical riding/driving aids have become very, very necessary. It seems very few countries have stringent licence testing procedures, even then, the number of incapable morons on the road rises from week to week (see Germany, but pretty certain it's much the same elsewhere, loads of international road users here). These surely require all available aids in order to get home in one piece again, I'd rather see them disappear/banned from public highways. This applies to drivers and riders of all ages that are not only a threat to all other road users, but also to themselves. It's going to hurt, badly, but I'm ready to surrender my licence once I realise I've reached the point that I represent a danger to others.
So, no, I'm not against technical progress making riding and driving safer. But I certainly am opposed to the industry building vehicles that can no longer be safely operated without "safety" devices and lawmakers propogating that diverse electronic aids will save my life and keep me out of trouble, despite me behaving like a stupid incapable dick. And I feel very sorry for those that actually believe this bullshit. Those gizmos CAN save your life and MIGHT keep you out of trouble, but it's not guaranteed. I'm glad I can fall back on some of them if/when a situation goes pear-shaped, but I'll never depend on them. None of my bikes offer any electronic aids, nor am I ready to purchase one that does. A Garmin sat-nav is about as far as I'm prepared to go.
piet
guess that was $0.04 this time...
Just for discussion let's extend this all the way to Fast Fighter Jets, for years the best of these were unable to even fly without using constant computer control of the control surfaces and what the limiting factor now is the poor excuse of a human, in reality, a supremely fit highly trained and motivated individual bearly piloting it in extreme conditions Next step Autonomous drones. Drone racing is here as well. BTW heard a comment from Casey Stoner calling for zero electronic aides and Airo to bring back the human skills. I would love to see that for one event just as an experiment.
Dellortoman
Hero member
- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
I've got a Ducati Multistrada 1200. It's got all the whizz-bang safety gizmos like traction control and ABS. I never ride close enough to the limit to bother any of those devices. That is except for one occasion. I had some idiot in a car pull out of a side street right in front of me. I grabbed the front brake hard enough to activate the ABS. I could feel it rapidly pulsing the brake on and off. I think it actually kicked in too early. I reckon I could have braked harder without its interference. Incidentally, I had the bike in "Urban" mode that softens throttle response and limits the max horsepower available. It makes the bike easier to ride in city traffic but it also dials up the computer safety features to the max, which is why I reckon the ABS kicked in before I needed (or wanted) it to.
Alzero
Hero member
- Location
- DaNang Vietnam
This discussion began about the Yamaha with two front tires and that WILL help you when you hit a patch of sand. Or wet leaves or even patches of ice.
rocketonarail
Hero member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
Just returning to the power output thing for a moment ....... ( and rider aids and electronic intervention ) ........
Back in the `eighties , EC official Martin Bangemann tried to introduce a 100 bhp limit for motorcycles..... It was never implemented , but it frightened manufacturers into a " gentlemans agreement " to limit power outputs to 125 bhp ( for a while ) ......... BMW kept to a self imposed limit of 100 bhp at the time ......... now we have the announcement of the new BMW M1000RR with 218 bhp , and a price tag of £ 32850 here in the UK .......! ........
At that price , it`s pretty unlikely you will ever see one on the road , although the basic 212 bhp versions are available for around £ 20,000 ......
The word from some dealers is that very few of these 200 bhp plus bikes are sold anyway , and most ( but not all , obviously ) of those that are sold go straight out onto the track , stripped of lights and other street equipment as soon as they`re purchased .
There seems to be a trend now for manufacturers to be phasing these types of bike out , as far as road use is concerned ......... Yamaha `s R1 and R6 are now only available here in the UK as track options ........
For road use , the 190 bhp R1 has now been replaced , in effect , by the 118 bhp R9 .... and the 125 bhp R6 has been replaced by the 74 bhp R7 ....... Suzuki have taken a similar path ..... no more GSX-R 1000 `s here in the UK any more , just a new 800 cc twin ........
You could argue that electronic intervention is much less likely to be needed on these more moderately powered machines , although manufacturers will still fit it .........
Maybe not such a bad thing in some cases ....... an idiot rider can easily get himself into trouble whether hes`s on a bike with just 50 bhp , or 150 bhp .
The current order of 200 bhp sports bikes seem to be making way for the new crop of 80 - 120 bhp middleweight twins and triples ......... as far as the Japanese manufacturers are concerned anyway .......... the Europeans seem more inclined to continue with the bigger and more powerful the better , whilst they can .
In comparison , " adventure " bikes are now coming in at 270 kg , and 170 bhp in some cases ( and also 890 mm seat heights ) ........ together with all the electronic and rider aids you can shake a stick at ...... for example , seats that automatically lower when you come to a standstill at the lights , to give you the chance to get at least the tips of your toes on the ground .......... this is how ridiculous this whole state of affairs has become .......
In more general terms , rider aids and electronic filtering is likely to be the norm for most bikes now , even those with relatively modest power outputs ........ ABS is mandatory on all new bikes from 125 cc upwards in any case ...... Riders will just come to expect this sort of thing , along with auto clutches and gearboxes , which are also starting to make an appearance on all sizes and types of bikes now , as well ......
Those 200 bhp plus bikes are probably the final throw of the dice , as far as internal combustion engined bikes are concerned , before the switch over to electric ........ manufacturers giving themselves a free hand to push the petrol engine boundaries as far as they can , before the party comes to an end .
In a similar way , back in the early `eighties , manufacturers gave us the chance to buy the race rep RGV 500`s and RD500`s as the ultimate performance two - strokes , before that particular type of engine was effectively legislated off the roads .
With the new generation of electric motorcycles literally weighing a tonne , and accelerating like shit off a shovel , then maybe we are going to need all the rider and electronic aids that are available , experienced riders or not !
Back in the `eighties , EC official Martin Bangemann tried to introduce a 100 bhp limit for motorcycles..... It was never implemented , but it frightened manufacturers into a " gentlemans agreement " to limit power outputs to 125 bhp ( for a while ) ......... BMW kept to a self imposed limit of 100 bhp at the time ......... now we have the announcement of the new BMW M1000RR with 218 bhp , and a price tag of £ 32850 here in the UK .......! ........
At that price , it`s pretty unlikely you will ever see one on the road , although the basic 212 bhp versions are available for around £ 20,000 ......
The word from some dealers is that very few of these 200 bhp plus bikes are sold anyway , and most ( but not all , obviously ) of those that are sold go straight out onto the track , stripped of lights and other street equipment as soon as they`re purchased .
There seems to be a trend now for manufacturers to be phasing these types of bike out , as far as road use is concerned ......... Yamaha `s R1 and R6 are now only available here in the UK as track options ........
For road use , the 190 bhp R1 has now been replaced , in effect , by the 118 bhp R9 .... and the 125 bhp R6 has been replaced by the 74 bhp R7 ....... Suzuki have taken a similar path ..... no more GSX-R 1000 `s here in the UK any more , just a new 800 cc twin ........
You could argue that electronic intervention is much less likely to be needed on these more moderately powered machines , although manufacturers will still fit it .........
Maybe not such a bad thing in some cases ....... an idiot rider can easily get himself into trouble whether hes`s on a bike with just 50 bhp , or 150 bhp .
The current order of 200 bhp sports bikes seem to be making way for the new crop of 80 - 120 bhp middleweight twins and triples ......... as far as the Japanese manufacturers are concerned anyway .......... the Europeans seem more inclined to continue with the bigger and more powerful the better , whilst they can .
In comparison , " adventure " bikes are now coming in at 270 kg , and 170 bhp in some cases ( and also 890 mm seat heights ) ........ together with all the electronic and rider aids you can shake a stick at ...... for example , seats that automatically lower when you come to a standstill at the lights , to give you the chance to get at least the tips of your toes on the ground .......... this is how ridiculous this whole state of affairs has become .......
In more general terms , rider aids and electronic filtering is likely to be the norm for most bikes now , even those with relatively modest power outputs ........ ABS is mandatory on all new bikes from 125 cc upwards in any case ...... Riders will just come to expect this sort of thing , along with auto clutches and gearboxes , which are also starting to make an appearance on all sizes and types of bikes now , as well ......
Those 200 bhp plus bikes are probably the final throw of the dice , as far as internal combustion engined bikes are concerned , before the switch over to electric ........ manufacturers giving themselves a free hand to push the petrol engine boundaries as far as they can , before the party comes to an end .
In a similar way , back in the early `eighties , manufacturers gave us the chance to buy the race rep RGV 500`s and RD500`s as the ultimate performance two - strokes , before that particular type of engine was effectively legislated off the roads .
With the new generation of electric motorcycles literally weighing a tonne , and accelerating like shit off a shovel , then maybe we are going to need all the rider and electronic aids that are available , experienced riders or not !
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There was a time a while back when HTM had a road version of the 1200cc twin, then I saw it was discontinued from memory as being too powerful. What did get my attention was a big thread on Adventure Rider where USA-based riders were complaining that if their top-of-the-range V twin Adventure Bike came fitted with legal DOT nobbies the bikes would be dealer-restricted to a lower engine power setting. That took a Dealer-only tool to restore full engine power mod. This was only in the Latigius USA, you could get full power bikes with Nobbies in Europe
. https://netrider.net.au/threads/no-...rous-for-public-roads.209943/#google_vignette
. https://netrider.net.au/threads/no-...rous-for-public-roads.209943/#google_vignette
The 2025 KTM 1390 Super Duke R Evo (actually 1350cm3) is rated for 190hp (140kW).
KTM Naked Bikes - Raw Power & Precision | KTM Australia
This is motorcycling with nothing hidden. Stripped to what matters: immediate response, precise feedback, and performance you feel from the first throttle > Read more
www.ktm.com
A perfect commuter...
Cheers,
bazzee
rocketonarail
Hero member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
I quite like that ........ KTM`s have always looked a bit iffy to me , but that looks ok .......... Made in Austria as well , although I hope they remember what they`re doing , now that a lot of the production takes place in India ..... might be a little bit out of practice ........The 2025 KTM 1390 Super Duke R Evo (actually 1350cm3) is rated for 190hp (140kW).
KTM Naked Bikes - Raw Power & Precision | KTM Australia
This is motorcycling with nothing hidden. Stripped to what matters: immediate response, precise feedback, and performance you feel from the first throttle > Read more
A perfect commuter...
Cheers,
bazzee
Bit of a porker , at 200 kg though .......
.............EncinoBoy
Senior member
- Location
- British Columbia,Canada
If I see another young (under fifty) dipshit YouTuber et al showing off the latest,most powerful,
exotic.for bragging rights at the Starbucks hyperbike...I'm gonna lose it ! My secret desire is for
these morons is to kill themselves and lessen the chance of similiar idiots striving for "views" My
guess is that this would never show up on "the channel" as that would definitely affect revenue.
This insane horsepower and IMU and traction control mode universe shows how motorcycle
riders can be sold anything with a very well contrived ad campaign and social media substitute
for real world experience and learning survival. Two hundred BHP whether rated SAE,DIN or ?
can be used on the TT course with one of the few world class racers ...for the rest of us mortals I
suggest a penis enhancement and a high value credit card.
exotic.for bragging rights at the Starbucks hyperbike...I'm gonna lose it ! My secret desire is for
these morons is to kill themselves and lessen the chance of similiar idiots striving for "views" My
guess is that this would never show up on "the channel" as that would definitely affect revenue.
This insane horsepower and IMU and traction control mode universe shows how motorcycle
riders can be sold anything with a very well contrived ad campaign and social media substitute
for real world experience and learning survival. Two hundred BHP whether rated SAE,DIN or ?
can be used on the TT course with one of the few world class racers ...for the rest of us mortals I
suggest a penis enhancement and a high value credit card.
Tippie
Hero member
- Location
- Dr?bak, Norway
And the reason most of us still love our old Laverda?
I read that write up on the new KTM monster and laughed my head off. Everything I don't want in one package. Just the bike Piet secretly lusts after in his nightmares.
I read that write up on the new KTM monster and laughed my head off. Everything I don't want in one package. Just the bike Piet secretly lusts after in his nightmares.
The Sock
Hero member
- Location
- London, England
This morning's Metro cartoon seemed appropriate:
Andy J
Hero member
- Location
- Isle of Man
I was discussing with Paul Dedman (podium finisher in the TT) my latest acquisition, which replaced my older V2 Tuono, and we both agreed the power output (at a modest 174BHP) is a ridiculously unnecessary amount for a road bike, even in a country where you can legally make use of it, although most riders couldn't really make use of it to the max, but also agreed you don't have to use it, but it's nice to know you could if you wanted to.
One of the reasons I traded up to the newer machine, other than just to experience a more 'modern' sports bike (before I restrict myself to my LZ50 and 100 Sport in my dotage) was because it does offer a few rider aids not available on the original Tuono V2 Factory, and in certain circumstances they might give me a better chance of staying in control of the bike.
One of the reasons I traded up to the newer machine, other than just to experience a more 'modern' sports bike (before I restrict myself to my LZ50 and 100 Sport in my dotage) was because it does offer a few rider aids not available on the original Tuono V2 Factory, and in certain circumstances they might give me a better chance of staying in control of the bike.
