3C - Cam Cover - Bottoming
- Thread starter Haggis
- Start date
G
Grant
Guest
Do you have an original rubber seal or a new one?
Original ones had an inverted 'T' shape, new ones don't.
Original ones had an inverted 'T' shape, new ones don't.
Rob
Hero member
- Location
- Midlands, UK
Jota981 said:
Hag - if you're tightening the bolts that much, you've eaten too many Weetabix!!
No, not as far as I know. As Grant says, non-OE gaskets are not as well formed and a tad thinner. Or the material not as good.
Hi Grant,
I have the newer more-or-less square section seal. I have had success with these in the past and never had a problem, but now I have a most infuriating oil leak. The oil leak is considerable, but I can't tell where the hell it is coming from. I have tried dusting the area, etc, to find the source, but find a wide area suddenly gets flooded.
I want to go back to base principles and understand what is mant to be happening with regard to oil seal compression.
Next step is to take the seal out and see if the cover periphery goes metal-to-matal to the head.
I cant remember - did the original T section seals fill the cover groove and then (the top bar of the T) extend outside to give extra sealing area between head and very-bottom surface of cover?
Hag.
I have the newer more-or-less square section seal. I have had success with these in the past and never had a problem, but now I have a most infuriating oil leak. The oil leak is considerable, but I can't tell where the hell it is coming from. I have tried dusting the area, etc, to find the source, but find a wide area suddenly gets flooded.
I want to go back to base principles and understand what is mant to be happening with regard to oil seal compression.
Next step is to take the seal out and see if the cover periphery goes metal-to-matal to the head.
I cant remember - did the original T section seals fill the cover groove and then (the top bar of the T) extend outside to give extra sealing area between head and very-bottom surface of cover?
Hag.
Hi Brad, maybe the thread title is a bit misleading, as nothing seems to be bottoming (and my enquiry was more whether things should or should not be internaly). The screws are being done up to a proper torque, but oil is pissing out (wet leg quantities). The cover is not metal-to-metal with the head around the periphery when the rubber is in place. Hag.
CLEMTOG
Hero member
The cam cover does not go metal to metal with the head, and the bolts can quite easilly be pulled through the cam cover as the bearing top surface will have a gap between itself and the underside of the cam cover, when coreectly installed.I have very recently seen a 1200 cover with a welded repaired bolt hole,(it was Ok in use) and I have another (unrepaired) in my workshop, so be carefull.
If you have a cam cover leak, it is much more likely that you have a cylinder stud sticking up too high, and collecting the underside of the cover, or (for some reason) massive, crankcase pressure.
CLEM
If you have a cam cover leak, it is much more likely that you have a cylinder stud sticking up too high, and collecting the underside of the cover, or (for some reason) massive, crankcase pressure.
CLEM
J
jlo
Guest
Jota981 said:
Apart a worn rubber, most possible causes for an oil leak at this place are a stud touching the cam cover (upside down stud after a rebuilt is a common mistake) or a cracked cylinder head (often near the cam chain tunnel).
G
Grant
Guest
A friend had a very similar problem some years ago. The solution was simple .
He had fitted new allen bolts to the cam cover and they were slightly too long and were bottoming out in the threaded part of the cam bearings. This stopped the cam cover seating properly on the head resulting in oil leaks all around the periphery of the cam cover.
Modern cam cover seals are pretty crap, and I am sure they are thinner or compress more than the originals.
Not sure if crumbling cam bearings would cause this problem, but worth a look.
The head studs have not been removed at some point, have they? The end that screws into the crankcase is longer than the end that you torque down.
How do I know this? When I originally got POP I couldn't understand why the studs had been hacksawed off by a few mm. DPO has inverted the studs then couldn't get the cam cover back on, so cut off the thread sticking out...
Also have any of the copper washers popped out of the cam cover? This would also change the ability for the cover to clamp down on the head properly.
He had fitted new allen bolts to the cam cover and they were slightly too long and were bottoming out in the threaded part of the cam bearings. This stopped the cam cover seating properly on the head resulting in oil leaks all around the periphery of the cam cover.
Modern cam cover seals are pretty crap, and I am sure they are thinner or compress more than the originals.
Not sure if crumbling cam bearings would cause this problem, but worth a look.
The head studs have not been removed at some point, have they? The end that screws into the crankcase is longer than the end that you torque down.
How do I know this? When I originally got POP I couldn't understand why the studs had been hacksawed off by a few mm. DPO has inverted the studs then couldn't get the cam cover back on, so cut off the thread sticking out...
Also have any of the copper washers popped out of the cam cover? This would also change the ability for the cover to clamp down on the head properly.
laverdakeith
Hero member
Have a good look in the corners of the cam cover, seen a few cracked ones and check you have a copper washer under each cap screw. Failing that there is a chap selling high quality cam cover gaskets on ebay for an astonishingly reasonable ?18, free p+p too, how do they do it?
Keith
Keith
KERMIT1200
Hero member
- Location
- Worcester,UK
HI Hag,
If everything appears OK,then it could be that one of the cam bearing blocks is cracked,allowing the cam cover to lift,even with the allen bolts done up.
Good hunting,
Andy
If everything appears OK,then it could be that one of the cam bearing blocks is cracked,allowing the cam cover to lift,even with the allen bolts done up.
Good hunting,
Andy
a14rgs
Hero member
- Location
- Wiltshire, UK
laverdakeith said:
Some Jockanese geezer - can't think who that could be?
A worthy 'plug' Keith - well done
Alan
Jota981 said:
Hag,
Yes!
If you mount the cam cover on the cam bearings sans gasket, you should have an even gap across the sealing surface.
AfaIk, the gaskets were always rectangular section, even the original factory items. The "T" section formed itself through compression of the rubber.
When fitted, the screws can be done up tight, never had a thread pull or a cover crack (OE cam pillars have a cast-in steel M6 nut, thread does not pull easily
). As Keith stated, be sure the copper washers are there...1200 parts catalog included a fibre washer also under each srew head, never figured that one out!piet
piet
Tom Eatman
Hero member
Copper washers work fine on Laverdas but the mention of the fiber washers reminds me of a couple of trials and tribulations I had with a couple of bevel drive 500 Jawas I had in the shop last year. The Jawas have many external oil lines and I had many problems getting the things to seal properly with the typical copper washers. All the assorted tricks of the trade didn't help either. Out of sheer desperation I tried using the fiber washers and strangely enough this cured the leaks.
Tom
Tom
When I reassembled my triple engine the cam cover rocked a bit before I tightened it down. I thought maybe I had pulled a cam pillar stud and it was touching the underside of the cam cover. All that was wrong was that the cover was slightly warped. It leaked oil on reassembly; I hadn't used any gasket sealer. Took the cover off and applied some sealer and all was well again. Try checking your cover against a flat surface.
Dennis
Dennis