3C Wire Wheel Offset

Just to add to the confusion I just got my rear wheel back and its got another lace pattern different to the ones above. The wheelwright has all the spokes coming off the inside of the hub as opposed to the above pics where every second spoke alternates between inner and outer. I didnt get asked, but it does look very neat and he tells me all the Harleys he does get done like this and he as done a Speedway sidecar outfit running an R1 motor with 200hp like this and it's stronger as there are less bends in the spokes. It still crosses 2 spokes.Love to hear some comments on this.
 
Sounds like he reinvented the wheel for you Vince... it looks like go inside then outside etc so they can cross over each other instead of being in the same plane
 
I wish I could, its taken me 2 hours just to find where Windows 10 has hidden where my digital camera has downloaded the pictures too, make a very pretty ping like sound but then show NOTHING on the desktop.Anyone like the pics emailed to them as I am over playing blind mans bluff.
 
Vince said:
Just to add to the confusion I just got my rear wheel back and its got another lace pattern different to the ones above. The wheelwright has all the spokes coming off the inside of the hub as opposed to the above pics where every second spoke alternates between inner and outer. I didnt get asked, but it does look very neat and he tells me all the Harleys he does get done like this and he as done a Speedway sidecar outfit running an R1 motor with 200hp like this and it's stronger as there are less bends in the spokes. It still crosses 2 spokes.Love to hear some comments on this.
Click to expand...

Same amount of bends as conventional spokes, standard pattern for Harley front wheels using their alloy hub, mostly 18/19/21 inch.  Yes, does look neat and aids cleaning somewhat.

The disadvantage is that every 2nd spoke, which originally would exit the hub from the other side of the flange, has a much longer hook to clear its neighbour, even longer than it would in a conventional lacing pattern.  The "unsupported" bit of the hook is a lot longer and will be subjected to higher bending forces than the shorter spokes.  Reckon it might be acceptable on a front Laverda wheel, providing the brakes are not too powerful and the tyre not too sticky, but would be wary on the rear.  Depends largely on the actual guage of spoke, make it thick enough and all will be OK!

I'd give the wheel a good thrashing on a bad road surface to see how it stands up, but always keeping an eye on it, ie, stopping every 10-20 km to check spoke tension.  Best to have it fail quickly than after a couple of years when the warranty has expired... :D

piet
 
Just a had a look, your right Piet. Every second spoke has the hook a bit longer, the width of the spoke it needs to pass. The wheelwright said when I picked it up to bring it back after 500ks and he would nip up any looseness and check it. So how much weaker Piet? Dangerously weaker, I am running Bridgestone T31 radial tyres and we do punt on a bit on pretty crap roads.
 
Interesting that it works to take all the spokes from the inside of the flanges, if as I understand this is what is being discussed. I see that the spokes have two basic planes they work in. Driving (and braking) forces linear with the hub, and cornering forces lateral to the hub. The inside spokes would be most direct in handling linear forces, and less effective with lateral forces, the outer spokes more effective for the lateral forces. That a 200hp sidecar can use all inner spokes is amazing to me. It was never done on racing cars when they had spoked wheels as far as I know.
 
Spoking inners only is done but not common on wheels with moderate side loads ie front wheels, (I have never seen this pattern laced on a driving wheel ) the wheel builder must have done his maths though.
Stainless spokes are good to look at but can become brittle at the hook depending on what grade of stainless is used.
 
I was hoping this would be a bulletproof fix, well something new to watch closely. At least broken spokes will be an obvious failure point.One funny bit was it had some sqeezed on lead wheel weight plus a stickon to balance the wheel that I usually replace with the same capacity chromed brass reusable weight that has a grub screw to the spoke.This squeezed on weight was of an unknown capacity, and as I am not a drug dealer I don't own a set of digital scales.Even the local chemist didnt have a set, so I made a balance out of a steel rule and a large socket and balanced to the set of nice shiny grub screw type wheel weights, came out at 2/ 15 grams. Time to test my resent fork oil changes and these spokes on one of the plentiful bumpy local roads.
 
You won?t have to worry at all Vince. This is just an interesting topic, having built lots of wheels myself, drilling rims, cutting and threading spokes myself etc. If not only heavyweight hardlies as well as R1 engined sidecars use it, you have nothing to worry about.
 
I do note that the sidecar quoted was a speedway one...I've built a lot of speedway sidecar engines over the years and it's only on rare occasions they achieve anything like satisfactory rear wheel grip. Because the chair is on the outside, the inner driving wheel is always struggling for grip and does not see any serious lateral loads.

I don't personally like the arrangement with all spokes coming off the inside of the flanges. It may well be satisfactory but it will bear watching IMO.
 
That's exactly why mine originally failed, but it took 10years for that to happen. My original new wider rim arrived predrilled, and the wheelwright was not happy but managed to fudge it together but said he couldn't guarantee it would work with his fiddling with the spoke holes.I wanted it to be correct and stronger this time and the new wheelwright asked for an undrilled rim, it turned up drilled so it went back and an undrilled one then came.At least this longer hook section on every second spoke has some support from the spoke it crosses immediately after it comes out of the hub, there very close together.
 
The original borrani had an extra-deep dimple ... no longer available as far as I know in the modern replacements.

Other modern undrilled rims seem to have such shallow dimples so that drilling has to be through the sides, This means only part of the spoke nipple bears properly on the rim.
 
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