500 CR gear box

Thomas,
The F500 has a number of parts which differ from the Alpino [clutch hub for instance] but as far as I'm aware the F500 countershaft and its attendant first gear, plus the paired 2nd and 3rd gears are the same part numbers as fitted to the Monty. I can't imagine the factory specifying a different gear cluster for the Monty but who knows? If you've got information which contradicts this please share it, I'm interested!
 
My understanding is that the very first Montys were in fact formula's that were supplied with a few bits missing which got fitted in the UK, such as the seat and faring, plus front mudguard which were made by screen and plastics in Redditch, the fuel tank was an Alpino one painted orange,so the first Montys would have formula type gearboxes,I raced on e of these Montys in 79/80/81. I have no idea how many of these we got, but at some stage it changed to being Alpino based with a few bits fitted as before, Donkeys years ago I was talking to Massimo and it seemed as though he was unaware that Montys were being sold in the UK, which were not Formula based, but converted Alpinos,which would have been amuch cheaper production route.
CLEM

PS Formulas were built for a low cost race series by Moto Laverda in Itally (the bikes and the series) The spec of the bikes was strictly controlled and enforced, even to having scrutineers useing "cam gauges" to check that you hadnt changed the profile of them,you were supplied with the lighting kit, but this was not fitted, the idea being that after your year or two of racing you rebuilt the bike and soild it on to a road user.
 
I'm not so sure that converting an Alpino would be a cheaper production route, it would after all involve a complete engine strip. I own a very early Monty and have owned two a very late series 2 models , one of which is on my bench as we speak. I've also owned two F500s, one of which had a totally documented history from new.

All of them of them had the S1 cams and the high comp Asso pistons from new, and also the close ratio 'boxes.
The documented F500 was quite a late model and despite having the clutch hub from it in my hand alongside one which came from a bog standard Alpino I couldn't tell the difference.
There is a separate part number for an F500 clutch hub and so the only conclusion to draw is either the factory downgraded the later F500 clutch hub to an Alpino spec or alternatively they upgraded the Alpino to the F500 version.

My understanding is the factory had an F500 specification for the 500cc twin throughout its production life. The details of this specification may have varied very slightly during the production run . I think these detail differences were limited to the clutch hub and the cam bearings and are so minor as to be inconsequential .

When building the UK-bound Montjuic specification bikes I'm fairly sure the factory simply fitted an F500 spec engine, the F500 rearsets and the other paraphernalia associated with the MK1 or Mk2 Montys. I'm sure the F500 engines were built in batches and I wouldn't be surprised to discover that the availability of the small number of Montys which were produced broadly coincided with the batch production of the F500s which were produced in three lots, not two as has been reported in the past. 

F500 engines weren't blueprinted as is sometimes claimed, the F500 bikes were simply run in on the rolling road for a while longer and given a few laps of the test track to bed them in. Perhaps they did the same to the Montys, who knows?
The Monty/F500 engine was obviously a higher spec than the standard Alpino but they weren't built to the same exacting standards that the later SFCs were built to.
 
My Formula is from 1980, so from the second series.
The difference between its clutch hub and a standard one is that the bolts that hold the springs are longer and M7 instead of M6.

Hans
 
Very interesting Hans, I think they also had thicker washers on top of the springs, presumably to preload them and help prevent slipping.
 
Hmm.
Well, I just might wait untill a formula or a mark I shows up for sale.
The mark II is ni where near as good looking as mark I.

I might follow the one on ebay as well. It should have the cr box anyway and I can swap wgearnox with my race bike project.

Thanks for the input.
 
bob said:
Very interesting Hans, I think they also had thicker washers on top of the springs, presumably to preload them and help prevent slipping.
Click to expand...

In fact the bolt, washer, spring and clutch hub are the parts that have different part numbers than the standard 500.
 
wwhen I was racing my Monty in 1979, it was a very early bike and not many others around, in 1980 with BMCRC and Southern 67 clubs there were suddenly about eight bikes doing the club curcuits,sometimes even ten, it became very clear when neck and neck with others that only myself and Charles Laurence (now New York corr. for the Daily TorryUKIPgraph) had the close ratio first and second gears, very apparent coming out of slow corners like governors bridge(joke) eg Brands hairpin, Lydenn hairpin.I too have questined Laverda familly members about this , and they thought that all Montys were supplied with Formula engines, but what they may not have been aware of, was if any Alpinos were fitted with Monty cams and bodywork in order to make them into "Montys" I think Monty and ASlpino pistons are the same.
CLEM
 
Standard 500 clutch spring posts break under racing conditions, I've seen two broken. That would explain the change from 6 to 7 mm on the Formula.
Ciao
Paul
 
You mean like this, Paul?
This happened to my Formula engine, with 7 mm bolts!

Hans

 

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Monty and Alpino pistons are definitely not the same Clem. Alpinos are flat topped and the Asso F500 pistons have a distinct dome on them. The Alpino 'S' reputedly had F500 pistons .
 
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