alternator
- Thread starter jotacole
- Start date
D
dja981
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jotacole said:
The red,black and white wire is a pickup wire and doubt if there would be anything like 25 amps going through it. But I aint a sparky (bang)
Dave
Dellortoman
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- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
Yep, Dave is right, those colours are the pickup wires on an original installation, not the alternator wires.
Alternator wires are yellow, and yellow/black.
25A rated wire would be OK for alternator, but you don't need that for the pickups. I dunno what current the pickups draw, but I'd expect something less than 1A. If you're replacing those wires, select a wire size for mechanical durability and it will be heaps big enough to carry the current.
Rather than buy a roll of each colour wire, you can get multi-coloured wire in short lengths on ebay. Try searching for electrical wire with trace colour. I dunno where you're located, but here's an ebay seller in Australia http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6-x-5-meter-4mm-WIRE-ALL-WITH-TRACE-COLOUR-TYCAB-SINGLE-AUTO-WIRE-15-Amp-/151098299563?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item232e2914ab
Alternator wires are yellow, and yellow/black.
25A rated wire would be OK for alternator, but you don't need that for the pickups. I dunno what current the pickups draw, but I'd expect something less than 1A. If you're replacing those wires, select a wire size for mechanical durability and it will be heaps big enough to carry the current.
Rather than buy a roll of each colour wire, you can get multi-coloured wire in short lengths on ebay. Try searching for electrical wire with trace colour. I dunno where you're located, but here's an ebay seller in Australia http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6-x-5-meter-4mm-WIRE-ALL-WITH-TRACE-COLOUR-TYCAB-SINGLE-AUTO-WIRE-15-Amp-/151098299563?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item232e2914ab
Dellortoman
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- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
Just resurrecting an old thread rather than starting a new one.
Can someone confirm whether the RGS has a 3-phase alterntor?
The wires coming from the alternator are a little confusing because there's 5 of the buggers, which is at least 2 too many in my book, unless it's a 2-phase alternator with an earth connection. But that doesn't make sense either. There's 2 x yellow, 2 x white/blue, and 1 x green/white.
The only wiring diagram I can find for a 120? engine is for the Jota 120, which has a sensible 3 wires coming from the alternator, but different colours to the ones I've got. I have a pdf of the RGS workshop manual, but it doesn't contain a wiring digram.
I have the original ND RR, and a SH530 as well. I'll probably use the SH530 because I know what the wires are. The bloody ND only has one yellow wire, one red, and the others are various stripey colours, which are a mystery.
Cheers,
Cam
Can someone confirm whether the RGS has a 3-phase alterntor?
The wires coming from the alternator are a little confusing because there's 5 of the buggers, which is at least 2 too many in my book, unless it's a 2-phase alternator with an earth connection. But that doesn't make sense either. There's 2 x yellow, 2 x white/blue, and 1 x green/white.
The only wiring diagram I can find for a 120? engine is for the Jota 120, which has a sensible 3 wires coming from the alternator, but different colours to the ones I've got. I have a pdf of the RGS workshop manual, but it doesn't contain a wiring digram.
I have the original ND RR, and a SH530 as well. I'll probably use the SH530 because I know what the wires are. The bloody ND only has one yellow wire, one red, and the others are various stripey colours, which are a mystery.
Cheers,
Cam
Simonr501
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- Lympne, Kent. UK
Cam,
As far as I can make out:
Green/White. Goes to the left handlebar switchgear via a connector of same colour loom cable(switches 3rd phase in if lights switched on?) - Return path to R/R is via Green/White on switch and connects to Red/White on loom.
Blue/White. Goes to R/R connection of same colour (although you have changed R/R) and subsequently battery.
Yellow. Goes to R/R connection of same colour (see above) and subsequently battery.
Not sure if R/R would really care if Blue/White and Yellow connections were connected the other way around or even the return from the switch. But the output to the battery (Red cable on original R/R) I should think vital.
Maybe an electrician will trot along soon!!!!!
As far as I can make out:
Green/White. Goes to the left handlebar switchgear via a connector of same colour loom cable(switches 3rd phase in if lights switched on?) - Return path to R/R is via Green/White on switch and connects to Red/White on loom.
Blue/White. Goes to R/R connection of same colour (although you have changed R/R) and subsequently battery.
Yellow. Goes to R/R connection of same colour (see above) and subsequently battery.
Not sure if R/R would really care if Blue/White and Yellow connections were connected the other way around or even the return from the switch. But the output to the battery (Red cable on original R/R) I should think vital.
Maybe an electrician will trot along soon!!!!!
Dellortoman
Hero member
- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
Ah, that makes a kind of sense Red, although it doesn't explain why two of the wires split into four. Do they all do that?
I don't think I'll bother taking the alternator cover off to trace the wires back. You've seen my engine in its nakedness so I'll take your word for it. Besides, you seem like a trustwothy fellow.
Simon. You may have answered the question about why the wires split into two. The one that goes to the handlebar switch would have a lower usage rate than the other two (or four ???). You're right about it not mattering which AC wires from the alternator not having to be colour-matched to the AC input wires on the RR. The rectifier sorts it all out.
In case anyone is wondering why I'm messing about with al alternator on a track bike: I intend to make it a road legal race bike, so it needs an electrical system when in road-going fettle. Most of the electrical stuff including the alternator and starter motor will be stripped off when in track mode. I just mounted the headlights yesterday. They?re on the outside of the fairing, endurance racer style. The headlight bracket will also carry the horn and indicators, so the whole lot can be removed by undoing just two bolts and disconnecting a multi-pin wiring harness. I?ll have a similar arrangement for the lights and registration plate at the tail end.
Thanks guys
Cam
I don't think I'll bother taking the alternator cover off to trace the wires back. You've seen my engine in its nakedness so I'll take your word for it. Besides, you seem like a trustwothy fellow.
Simon. You may have answered the question about why the wires split into two. The one that goes to the handlebar switch would have a lower usage rate than the other two (or four ???). You're right about it not mattering which AC wires from the alternator not having to be colour-matched to the AC input wires on the RR. The rectifier sorts it all out.
In case anyone is wondering why I'm messing about with al alternator on a track bike: I intend to make it a road legal race bike, so it needs an electrical system when in road-going fettle. Most of the electrical stuff including the alternator and starter motor will be stripped off when in track mode. I just mounted the headlights yesterday. They?re on the outside of the fairing, endurance racer style. The headlight bracket will also carry the horn and indicators, so the whole lot can be removed by undoing just two bolts and disconnecting a multi-pin wiring harness. I?ll have a similar arrangement for the lights and registration plate at the tail end.
Thanks guys
Cam
I would suggest that you use the finest stranded automotive wire with high temp insulation you can find.
Can be tinned or bare copper, your choice or depends on what you can source. If possible, I would go for tinned.
For pickups, 0.5mm2 with silicone insulation as that area runs quite hot (which is why original insulation cracks and falls apart)
For Alt, 2.5mm2 with V105 or grade higher insulation would do nicely.
Both of the above are larger cross sectional area than you need, but give you more mechanical strength.
Modern multi stranded automotive wiring is much smaller is physical size than in the 70's and 80's due to improved insulation, so you should have no trouble in getting it thru the grommets/cable insulators in the LAV.
Can be tinned or bare copper, your choice or depends on what you can source. If possible, I would go for tinned.
For pickups, 0.5mm2 with silicone insulation as that area runs quite hot (which is why original insulation cracks and falls apart)
For Alt, 2.5mm2 with V105 or grade higher insulation would do nicely.
Both of the above are larger cross sectional area than you need, but give you more mechanical strength.
Modern multi stranded automotive wiring is much smaller is physical size than in the 70's and 80's due to improved insulation, so you should have no trouble in getting it thru the grommets/cable insulators in the LAV.
Dellortoman said:Ah, that makes a kind of sense Red, although it doesn't explain why two of the wires split into four. Do they all do that? I don't think I'll bother taking the alternator cover off to trace the wires back. You've seen my engine in its nakedness so I'll take your word for it. Besides, you seem like a trustwothy fellow.
Simon. You may have answered the question about why the wires split into two. The one that goes to the handlebar switch would have a lower usage rate than the other two (or four ???). You're right about it not mattering which AC wires from the alternator not having to be colour-matched to the AC input wires on the RR. The rectifier sorts it all out.
In case anyone is wondering why I'm messing about with al alternator on a track bike: I intend to make it a road legal race bike, so it needs an electrical system when in road-going fettle. Most of the electrical stuff including the alternator and starter motor will be stripped off when in track mode. I just mounted the headlights yesterday. They?re on the outside of the fairing, endurance racer style. The headlight bracket will also carry the horn and indicators, so the whole lot can be removed by undoing just two bolts and disconnecting a multi-pin wiring harness. I?ll have a similar arrangement for the lights and registration plate at the tail end.
Thanks guys
Cam
Cam,
Apparently only the non-US market bikes had the 3rd. phase coil detoured through the headlight switch. Possibly because the US already had mandatory day-time lighting? In this case, the alternator would need to deliver all it had, all the time. Otherwise, the bikes' electrical requirements would be covered by 2 phases alone, with the 3rd kicking in when lights are switched on.
Laverda bought in the alternator, possibly made to some other manufacturers' specs, hence the 2 redundant wires in the Lav loom. Suzuki used some very similar alternator/starter clutch set-ups.
piet
Dellortoman
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- Tasmania, Australia
Makes sense Piet. Alternators always deliver their max output all the time. Any excess not required by the bike's electrical system is shunted to earth by the RR. Having one switched phase for the lights is slightly more efficient and takes a bot of load (and heat) off the RR.
DavidH: The ignition is a new Redax/Lex/Ignitech gadget with Hall effect pickups, so no issues with th pickup wire insulation.
DavidH: The ignition is a new Redax/Lex/Ignitech gadget with Hall effect pickups, so no issues with th pickup wire insulation.
71Laverda750SF
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- The Sunshine State
If the originality (rivet counting) of the wire is not important Tefzel wire is a superb replacement with great abrasion resistance, high temperature resistance, and it comes in standard colors, and is the standard general purpose wire in the aviation industry. And, it doesn't cost much more that the PVC crap most automotive manufactures use/
Clay
Clay