Crankshaft outrigger bearing lubrication
- Thread starter Dellortoman
- Start date
3
3patC
Guest
Mine used to sound like that because the primary drive sprocket on the crank was sloppy on its splines.
took me a while to figure it out but loctite and brute force stopped it. Pat
took me a while to figure it out but loctite and brute force stopped it. Pat
Dellortoman
Hero member
- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
All shims in place, no end-float in clutch drum. Checked alignment of primary sprockets as part of the assembly process - all OK.
Jesus nut just re-installed, tightened to 110Nm and locked with the locking washer and loctite.
I had a look at the needle bearings in the clutch. They looked OK, for what that's worth. There is a bit of angular movement of the clutch drum on the shaft, but I couldn't feel any radial slop. I suppose I could swap clutch drums (or entire clutch assemblies)between the 3C and Jota and see if the noise migrates with the clutch. But that's a lot of messing around, and I dunno whether I can be bothered right now.
Y'know Grant, I never tried pulling the clutch in and listening. How dumb is that? I'll take it for a ride tomorrow and see what happens.
Still pondering...
Cam
Jesus nut just re-installed, tightened to 110Nm and locked with the locking washer and loctite.
I had a look at the needle bearings in the clutch. They looked OK, for what that's worth. There is a bit of angular movement of the clutch drum on the shaft, but I couldn't feel any radial slop. I suppose I could swap clutch drums (or entire clutch assemblies)between the 3C and Jota and see if the noise migrates with the clutch. But that's a lot of messing around, and I dunno whether I can be bothered right now.
Y'know Grant, I never tried pulling the clutch in and listening. How dumb is that? I'll take it for a ride tomorrow and see what happens.
Still pondering...
Cam
Cam,
The noise will be a bit of everything.... slop in the bores, inner mains sloppy, hardened cush drive rubbers causing excessive movement in the chain drive, worn valve guides, worn gearbox bushes and gears.... the list goes on and on!
With over 100000kms on the clock these engines do get quite noisy, although there's nothing dramatically wrong with them. One of the main causes they get run into the ground, owners get so used to the racket they don't bother about/notice any changes.
piet
The noise will be a bit of everything.... slop in the bores, inner mains sloppy, hardened cush drive rubbers causing excessive movement in the chain drive, worn valve guides, worn gearbox bushes and gears.... the list goes on and on!
With over 100000kms on the clock these engines do get quite noisy, although there's nothing dramatically wrong with them. One of the main causes they get run into the ground, owners get so used to the racket they don't bother about/notice any changes.
piet
CLEMTOG
Hero member
my money is on loose/sloppy slides in the carbs, would happen sooner if run without an air cleaner, and even quicker and easier to hear if run useing bellmouths or as the yanks call them velocity stacks.If that is the case, then a good long run at about 140kph, might even see you hole a piston,(would not want that) more likely at that speed than higher or lower, due to the progression of the carb.
CLEM
CLEM
G
Grant
Guest
Poor carb synchronisation can also cause the primary chain to tug and clank.
laverdakeith
Hero member
CLEMTOG said:
Any wear in the carb slide is completely negated as soon as the throttle slide is off it's stop Clem, certainly unlikely to cause a holed piston. Biggest risk from worn throttle slides is them jamming in their bores and the annoying rattle at tickover, altho I must admit I do quite like the tickover rattle that comes from my Mikunis, it hints of good things to come...
Keith
Dellortoman
Hero member
- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
Well, I do need to fine tune the carbs. They only had visual synchronisation when they were off the bike. Having trouble getting a reliable idle.
Cam
Cam
Dellortoman
Hero member
- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
I've been poking around with a stethoscope. Pretty much confirmed the noise is in the clutch, or at least the primary drive. The engine bottom end and barrels sound good - all I can hear is whirring. But there's a definite clatter when I put the stethoscope probe on the primary case. My bet is that the clutch rubbers have gone hard with age and are not doing their job as cushions.
Being in the clutch could also explain why it gets worse as the engine warms up. The alloy clutch drum expands more than the steel clutch plates. The increasing clearance means more backlash.
At least it's not terminal.
Cheers,
Cam
Being in the clutch could also explain why it gets worse as the engine warms up. The alloy clutch drum expands more than the steel clutch plates. The increasing clearance means more backlash.
At least it's not terminal.
Cheers,
Cam
motoddrob
Hero member
- Location
- S/W Australia
Probably good for another 100k miles Cam. Wearing ear plugs should solve the problem!
CLEMTOG
Hero member
I have found that the original clutch cush drive rubbers lasted quite well, and until a few years ago, so did the replacements (which may have been factory old stock) but what I have found recentlky is that when I replace them, either on my own bikes or on my friends bikes, is that they only last two to three years at most, before shrinking and hardeneing.Good job they are not hard to change.
CLEM
CLEM
Cam
When I was chasing down the noise on Vince's bike, like you I was all over it with stethoscope etc. with not much success in pin pointing it. in the end I just took the primary drive chain off. (did not have to undo the Jesus nut as clutch rubbers had been done and could just slip it off by taking the clutch sprocket off) slipped the side cover back on and started the bike. allowed me to rule out the clutch gear box in one hit. (found the noise)
Jugs
When I was chasing down the noise on Vince's bike, like you I was all over it with stethoscope etc. with not much success in pin pointing it. in the end I just took the primary drive chain off. (did not have to undo the Jesus nut as clutch rubbers had been done and could just slip it off by taking the clutch sprocket off) slipped the side cover back on and started the bike. allowed me to rule out the clutch gear box in one hit. (found the noise)
Jugs
Dellortoman said:
Cam,
Is the noise reduced when the clutch is disengaged? If so, you will find quite a bit of wear in the clutch drum splines.... this is where the dreaded MKII-type tensioner springs can be of some aid.
Early clutches can be converted without too much effort, helps reducing clutch clonking considerably. You just need 2 old worn-out drive plates, the springs, a Dremel and patience....piet
Dellortoman
Hero member
- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
Piet - the noise does reduce when I pull the clutch in, although it doesn't disappear entirely. I don't reckon I could be bothered with the hassle of installing the anti-rattle clutch plates just to get rid of what is probably a harmless noise.
Jugs - I tried running it without the primary chain - couldn't hear the noise at all, which tends to confirm all OK in the engine department. BTW, I didn't bother putting the primary cover back on to run it un-chained. Only lost about 3 drips of oil.
Another thing I tried as part of the diagnostic process was to the pull plug leads off one cylinder at a time (unlike the old HKZ ignition, the coils can cope without being earthed). The theory being that if there was a sloppy piston or a knocking rod, the noise would stop when ignition was cut to that cylinder. I couldn't get the noise to disappear, which also points to it not being in the reciprocating parts of the engine. The interesting thing I discovered though, was the the noise got a little more intense when either the left or right cylinders were disabled, and a wee bit softer when the centre cylinder was disabled. I put this down to the fact that the firing impulses are smoother (than normal) without the centre cylinder firing, and rougher than normal when either of the outer cylinders isn't firing. The more uneven the power pulses, the more they rattle the clutch.
Cheers,
Cam
Jugs - I tried running it without the primary chain - couldn't hear the noise at all, which tends to confirm all OK in the engine department. BTW, I didn't bother putting the primary cover back on to run it un-chained. Only lost about 3 drips of oil.
Another thing I tried as part of the diagnostic process was to the pull plug leads off one cylinder at a time (unlike the old HKZ ignition, the coils can cope without being earthed). The theory being that if there was a sloppy piston or a knocking rod, the noise would stop when ignition was cut to that cylinder. I couldn't get the noise to disappear, which also points to it not being in the reciprocating parts of the engine. The interesting thing I discovered though, was the the noise got a little more intense when either the left or right cylinders were disabled, and a wee bit softer when the centre cylinder was disabled. I put this down to the fact that the firing impulses are smoother (than normal) without the centre cylinder firing, and rougher than normal when either of the outer cylinders isn't firing. The more uneven the power pulses, the more they rattle the clutch.
Cheers,
Cam