Help req: Ignitech TCIP4 ignition with 120deg engine

[Guzzitrikerider]

If anyone is using this ignition module with the 3 standard Bosch ignition pickups (trigger coils) and single lobe rotor, could they please email or post an image of this settings page in the software setup. Or even a copy of the .IGN (setup file for the software).
Really appreciate it. Thanks.
JB

 

[Paul LeClair]

Hi JB

I have had quick and helpful responses directly from the three fellows at Ignitech, in English. You might consider emailing them directly, they seem very helpful.

I am also curious about the use of stock Laverda/Bosch pickups with an Ignitech box and will be watching for whatever the answer is. Sorry, I don't know the answer myself. I also wonder how accurately the three individual pickups on the stock 120 plate can be set in relation to each other to trigger exactly 120 degrees apart, I have always struggled with them, or even just the two stock pickups on a 180. I wonder if the Ignitech software could compensate for the three ignition pickups if they are not exactly 120 degrees apart?

The system RedAx has developed and sells use a custom made Hall Effect trigger board and adjustable crank end two piece trigger rotor with an Ignitech box. The Hall Effect trigger board that RedAx supplies has LED indicator lights that makes it easy and straightforward to set initial base timing. I do not know if he has developed a trigger plate and system for a 120 yet?

Paul LeClair

 

[redax5]

yes, we have a system for a 120 engine, is same as the Series 2 set up with an additional trigger.
Ignitech boxes we buy though will only work with a Hall Effect or an Optical board as we have them custom made.

Never tried as we don't stock DMC units but in theory one of the custom made Ignitech boxes would work on a DMC optical board if anyone wanted to change to a fully programmable DMC set up

standard Ignitech box as bought direct from Ignitech is set up for inductive triggers so is in effect a straight bolt on item for a standard Laverda Bosch trigger set up.
On a 120 you need to join the trigger wires for cylinder 2 and 3 together as the Ignitech only handles 2 trigger inputs.
This is compensated for in the software they supply, you set it so it has two inputs but 3 coil outputs and the software works out the rest.

It is possible in the Ignitech to program in a trigger compensation to allow for misaligned triggers but not certain how that would work on the 120 set up if trigger 2 was correct and trigger 3 was out.
Works fine on the 180 set up

good luck with your install

 

[Chappo]

I'm using the stock pick ups with an Ignitech on my RGS. When I inquired at Ignitech, they recommended I use the stock pick ups.

I bought a wire loom from Ignitech, that suited the RGS. I disconnected the original CDI units, and plugged in the Ignitech. After using a piston stop and degree wheel to check the timing, I changed the base advance on the pre-programmed setting to suit, put in a curve that curved gradually to 32 degrees advance. I pretty much set everything else at 'auto'.

I haven't finished playing with the curve yet, but I won't get back to it until I give the carbs an overhaul.No sure I can do much more with it anyway. The bike runs better than before.

I'm happy with the purchase.

 

[Vince]

Brett and myself have been playing with the curve on my modded to Corsa spec 3C. It does have a very big effect on my bikes rideability.. The first map had a strong pull over 4k but not much under, the second had good pull under 4k but lost everything above 4k. The next was better throughout but slightly less top end compared to the first and with a little fiddle it was pretty good from top to bottom.That's by arse dino with no detected pinging but I was wearing ear plugs,next test no plugs in . Probably do some more fiddling but its getting harder to pick an improvement.BTW thats my engine all on a specific day and weather conditions,effects may vary as they say on the label BTW I have confidence in Brett's ability to stay within safe engine bounds,there is potential to completely stuff your engine doing this stuff and not knowing what your doing, take care

 

[Dellortoman]

I wonder if the Ignitech software could compensate for the three ignition pickups if they are not exactly 120 degrees apart?

On the advance map page, below the graph, you can enter corrections for channels 1 and 2. Not sure how that works when you have 3 cylinders 120 deg apart though.

 

[MotoJouni]

On the advance map page, below the graph, you can enter corrections for channels 1 and 2. Not sure how that works when you have 3 cylinders 120 deg apart though.

At least on my version 88 there is corrections for each cylinder on that page.

 

[redax5]

At least on my version 88 there is corrections for each cylinder on that page.

yes, there is, but how does the software work out which trigger is which between cylinder 2 and 3 when there are only two trigger inputs ?

 

[MotoJouni]

yes, there is, but how does the software work out which trigger is which between cylinder 2 and 3 when there are only two trigger inputs ?

By the same system that knows whether to feed the output pulse to cylinder 2 or 3. I think that Ignitech is a single channel device and there is a software distributor inside it. All output channels are always timed from every pick-up signals, not knowing what happens to other cylinders then if one pick-up is misaligned.

I think the main problem is not the fact three pick-ups are connected to two input channels. The real problem for accurate timing comes from two facts:
1.There are three pick-ups and one lobe instead of three lobes and one sensor. On the first case the misalignment comes from the pick-up fastenings, on the latter case correct timing is depending how accurately the lobes are machined that makes almost never a problem.
2. The timing is based on time delays because the device knows crank angle precisely only when a pick-up gives a signal. This creates unaccuracies to timing because engine rotation isn't completely even.

The total advance is counted from multiple different time delays (like advance from curves + correction for each cylinder). My solution is to try to avoid using time delays. This could be done measuring and marking TDC points to clutch cover. Originally there is a factory TDC mark only for cylinder one. Then all of the pick-ups could be adjusted separetely to zero mark, when the Ignitech has a program that gives allways zero advance, or at least at low speeds in where the measuring is to be done. Of course the idle speed should be rised from carburettors for the test. Then the correct correction values for each cylinders are zero and one source for unaccurate timing is avoided.