Lithium Batery for RGS

henrywillms

henrywillms

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Canada
Men, I searched the posts and I didn't see anything definitive on if a Lithium battery works well with regards to the Laverda charging system. I get the high cranking amps, small size and weight, long life and that special battery chargers for charger needed during storage. I ride my RGS only occassionally ( 6 months riding season and owning 2 motorcycles) so the long life spent sitting around seems a benefit for the extra cost. Real concern is that it is not clear to me if the RGS charging system keep the Lithium battery charged properly. I know the Lithium works well in newer motorcycles with high output charging systems. I am still running the stock alterntor and Regulator/Rectifier in my RGS. Any real life expereince out there?       
 
I'm not sure that the expense of a Lithium battery can be justified if you're not looking for weight saving.  Certainly they are better than ordinary lead-acid types when considering self-discharge, but then so is a decent AGM type. 

The RGS charging system will satisfy most batteries - it tops out at 14.5v - but I suggest you confirm the actual charging requirements of your preferred supplier.  For example, Shorai state 14.8v is the maximum permissible.  Their own charger operates at 14.4v.  What seems to kill Lithium batteries is allowing the voltage to drop below 13v.  This means checking that you don't have any standing load on your bike which will flatten the battery over time.  Again, the RGS is OK for this.
 
They work well and are very small and light. Read the guff here http://www.superstart.com.au/Products/ProductList/tabid/108/mode/details/bid/15/Default.aspx
 
Any battery can start a fire, but it's not usually because of a failure of the battery. The most common cause is a short-circuit external to the battery, in which case the battery and anything else that the current is flowing through will get very hot, very quickly.

Lithium batteries ore only a marginally higher risk than lead-acid because they have a very low internal resistance and will therefore deliver a higher current through a short-circuit. 

The best protection against short circuits is to keep your wiring in good condition, use fully-insulated connectors as well as grommets, sleeves, etc. to prevent insulation chafing.
 
Very pleased with the Dekka AGM battery in the RGS; previously had Yuasa lead/acid batteries; stuffed each one within ten months of fitting. :(
 
Hi all,

I've spoken to Shorai here in Denmark 3 years ago, when they first introduced their Lithium battery, but in a slightly modified version, called LiFe.
They told me, that their batteries are not as risky as ordinary lithium batterien, like used in rc heli's, which are much more likely to catch fire.

Also, I live in minus 5 - 25 cel over the Winter, and in my garage is probably +5 cel on a normal Winter. Rarely frost.
During summer, no problems. During Winter - no problems.

After a full storing season, speaking of battery only, I just turn ignition on, turn on main beam for say 20 to 30 seconds, lights off, and then hit the starter button, and it springs into life immediately.

No charging during Winter.
Shorai's own charger decharges the batteries to 60% during long term storage. Cold - no problem.

It's under 1 kilo, and is really powerfull. It's not only the Ah which it actually keeps but the cranking ah that is really high. Lead Acis is maybe around 20% after two or three starts in real life. I'm sure you know all that anyway.
No electrical frills after using that for 3 years no. Just fun.

So my agm Tecno battery is used elsewhere, and I gave my new Varta to a Laverda friend years ago.

Only problem is that Shorai Europe (here in Copenhagen), harve a seriously hard time getting batteries, as they only buy few and get them from US.
I've waited two months now for two batteries for other spplications. One small model for a friends buzuki, and their largest 36 Ah type for my Lotus.
Havent got them yet....

I have no affiliation to Shorai what so ever, but can from a technical and user standpoint only recommend them.
One of the strongest reasons is no need to recharge during a Winter.
Also, do NOT charge it, if ever needed, with a modern smart charger. ONLY a normal old style charger or their own. As far as I remember, it's something to do with the quick pulsations that a smart charger like my ctek's gives. and a reversed voltage versus Ampere's

I think there is now a far East chi.. Company WHO copies them under another brand name... As usual. I stay  with Shorai anyway.

The office for Europe her ein Copenhagen can be written to, visited or emailed, and they know a thing or two about batteries, so feels free to ask, as I did.

I've posted a Picture of my AGM Tecno battery which is exactly half size of a standard Laverda 120 SFC1000 Varta battery, and NeXT to the agm, is the shorai. Really small, carbon case, and superlight. Only bad point seems to me at least to be the + and - terminals, which is a bit wobly and soft. I think they can unscrew and be changed. I think in real life the shorai is 1/4 of the standard battery, and can be shaken, stirred, upside Down, lie Down, with no ill effects. Nice.

Cheers,
Jacques.
 

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G'day Jacques,
Why do you turn on the main beam for 20/30 seconds before starting?
Terry
 
It's a fallacy. Turning the lights on is the last thing you should be doing to aid starting. It won't do anything other than flatten the battery a bit and depress its voltage. If your battery condition is marginal, it will likely prevent starting the engine at all.

Batteries don't need exercise to warm up and they don't spin up like a flywheel. Electrons don't have much inertia  :D

The battery will deliver as much current as it's ever going to right from the instant it's switched on. Any other load you give it will only make its life harder.

It's quite true that batteries won't perform as well at low temperatures, so warming it up will help. But switching the lights on won't draw enough current to warm the battery up. Batteries have low internal resistance so very little energy is dissipated inside the battery itself. The only way to get it warm is with an external heat source.

If you don't believe me, consider this:

A 12V 55W headlamp will draw 4.6 Amps. Typical internal resistance of a 12V lead acid battery is about 0.02 Ohms. Power dissipated by 4.6 Amps flowing through a resistance (I2R) in this case is (4.6)2 x 0.02 = 0.42 Watts, which is converted to heat inside the battery. That's not a lot of heat. As benchmark, the little globes in your idiot lights are 3 Watt. Now imagine a globe about ⅛ the size of your neutral light trying to heat up a couple of kilograms of lead acid battery. It's like an ant trying to move a bulldozer - it's just not going to happen.

 
Thanks for the dissertation Cam,
Can?t say that we warmed up the submarine's batteries before sailing ;)
 
Lithium batteries do passivate under no load conditions, that helps them to stay charged for so long when stored. Putting the headlight on depassivates them, and is mentioned in the instructions from the manufacturers when starting on a cold day. It helps them to deliver the CCA needed. We use Lithium Thyenol batteries to power the electronics in down hole drilling tools and those need depassivation through a resistor while whacking them with a stick on a cold day.

Mike
 
Interesting. We had to run 'Battery Agitation' prior to putting a load on the old 'O' boat batteries. Consisted of pumping air down tubes to stir the electrolyte. Could be something similar.
 
Passivation is a different issue. The passivation layer on the anode is usually only thick enough to be a problem when the battery is old or has been standing unused for a long time. You shouldn't need to depassivate a battery that's in good condition and regular use.

Agitation is of the electrolyte is something I hadn't heard of before. Thanks for that little bit of wisdom Terry. I reckon submarine batteries might be a little larger than what most of us are used to.  :D
 
Not wrong; 440 cells, each about 4x1.5x1.5 feet. Capacity: 8400 AmpHour
 
I think my bike would need a bigger battery tray, in fact my battery tray would need a bigger bike  :o
 
The shorai battery that I have has been excellent. A friend of mine who has the exact same battery had some serious trouble though. The battery literally melted. Lucky he didn't get his bike burned. Must have been a faulty unit, since I haven't heard these new lithium batteries having that kind of trouble. All the same, if you install one, remember to check the condition of the unit in regular basis...
 
Hia ll,
I did turn on the main beam for a short while, as I was instructed to do so. I think it's not really needed, but it became a habit. The thing about the LiFe battery is, that I at least seems to experience the following:
This spring, I couldn't start the Laverda, no matter how much I crancked it (short bursts). What i needed was just a carb balancing, which I did, and all was fine Again.
But the point is this, that while cranking, the shorai battery became more and more active - spinning the starter faster.
This is why I keep on doing the "warm up" of the battery on first start in the spring, and after a longer period of non-use, say after having been on vacation for a month, or - 6 weeks of rain ::)

I believe I mentioned the melting in my first answer, but have never heard about it or seen it on shorai LiFe batteries. I keep poking around the Lav anyway, so keep an eye on the battery.

The way the starter spins is very fast with this battery, not like an old type wet battery.

Just my experience.

Kind regards,
Jacques.

 
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