Lithium batteries

The LH12-BS is rated at 300CCA and is lower .. the LH12B-4 is rated at 400CCA and is a bit taller and can handle higher charge inputs so basically is a heavy duty equivalent if that makes sense also slightly heavier  :o

Not convinced on those SSB batteries but as have seen a few give issues AKA one Black Betty just when you dont want it to.

 
You won't necessarily get better engine cranking with a higher CCA battery.

The current draw when cranking on the starter is determined by the system voltage and the resistance through the starter motor, starter relay, battery leads and the internal resistance of the battery itself. Not the CCA number written on the battery. You could hook up a million CCA battery and it wouldn't make any difference to the cranking speed.

As long as the CCA rating of the battery is adequate for the starter motor, you'll get the maximum cranking speed that that starter motor can do.

A new battery will crank better than an old one because it suffers less voltage depression, so is effectively cranking at a higher voltage.

Lithium batteries have a lower internal resistance than lead-acid, so will tend to crank the engine a bit faster. Larger battery and starter motor leads will reduce resistance too.
 
I like the SSB batteries. Several of my mates use them in their GS bms for many years without problems.
The one in my BM is 5 years old and never given any troubles and yesterday showed 14.3 volts with my multi meter.
The Motodd one, considerably smaller is the same age and struggles to turn the HC motor over when cold.
I jump started it yesterday off the BM battery and it fired right up so I'm thinking it must be the battery and not the starter cables that I'm thinking may be too small.
Once the motor has started it'll restart no problem. The meter tells me it has 13.4 volts on hand before hitting the starter button.
I'd buy another larger one without a 2nd thought.
 
martymoose said:
That?s a 9 amp doesn?t list cca. Motobatt one is 550cca
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It isn't really too hard to look for the specs on the SSB site.
https://superstart.com.au/lh9-bs-high-performance-lithium-ion-phosphate-motorcycle-battery.html
 
here's a question for Cam.
On the spec sheets for the various models besides the CCA there is 2 charge current figures, standard and Max. The 2 batteries I have one states 3.5amp stand. 28amp max.
That's on the 420cca BM battery. The smaller Motodd battery which is 290cca [previouly stated as 220cca, i was wrong] the currents are 1.5amp and 15amp max.
Can you explain the diffgerent charge currents and how they affect the batteries please?
 
You credit me with more knowledge about batteries than I actually have Rob!

I did attend a seminar on lithium batteries at my yacht club that was quite informative. People were starting to use them in yachts (for reasons I don't understand) which is why the club organised an expert to come along and give a presentation.

From what I understand, lithium batteries can tolerate a fast charge without damage. That would be the maximum charge rate. The 'standard' charge rate is what you'd use for normal charging if you're not in a hurry to whack some charge into it.

I do recall a couple of other salient points on charging lithium batteries. They are sensitive to over-charging and under-charging (or perhaps better described as over-discharging). You can kill a lithium battery by doing either.

They have a very flat voltage profile which means they'll hold full voltage as they discharge, right up until the last gasp when the voltage drops off sharply. That characteristic creates a couple of hazards you need to be aware of. Firstly, you can't tell the state of charge by measuring the voltage, and secondly, the sudden voltage collapse means you can easily discharge it beyond recovery.

Smart battery chargers for lead acid batteries (that includes AGM and gel type) will apply a 'normal' charge amp rate until the battery reaches full charge (around 12.8V) then will drop down to a fraction of an amp to maintain the battery on trickle charge.

However, that type of charging program won't work for a lithium battery. The thing will charge OK during the normal charge cycle, but the smart lead-acid battery charger isn't quite smart enough for lithium. It can't tell when the lithium battery is fully charged because of the flat voltage profile, so it'll keep charging at the 'normal' rate, and end up over-charging the lithium battery. That's a bad thing, because the only way the battery can absorb more energy is by heating up. That'll fuck the battery. Taken to the extreme, it could explode.

You need a 'very smart' charger to properly charge a lithium battery. That's the type of charging system you install when using lithium batteries in something like a caravan or a  photovoltaic array. They're getting quite a lot of use as house batteries in caravans to reduce weight.

The way a full bells and whistles lithium battery monitor works is to discharge the battery until the voltage just starts to drop. That establishes the point of discharge as a datum. Then it goes into charge mode and delivers the correct amount of charge to the battery to bring it up to full charge, then it goes into monitoring mode. Since it can't tell from the voltage when the battery is fully charged, it has to calculate the amount of energy delivered over during charge cycle (volts x amps x time). It also calculates the rate of discharge so it knows at all times what the charge state of the battery is. It has a built in micro-processor to do all that. The only issue is that you need to tell the monitoring system what the capacity of the battery is. So fancy lithium battery systems need a charge controller/monitor that's programmed for the particular battery array that it's connected to.

Of more interest to us is lithium batteries for motor vehicles. Cars and bikes don't have intelligent battery monitoring devices, so a good quality automotive lithium battery will have a battery monitor built in. But it only has a limited capability to protect the battery against excessive discharge or over-charge. The best it can do is modify the output voltage profile to approximate that of a lead acid type, so it'll work with automotive charging systems. But as far as I am aware it can't actually prevent over-charging if you leave it connected to a battery charger for too long.

Some lithium batteries have better protection than others. As an example, I killed an almost new SSB lithium battery by leaving the ignition switch on for a couple of days. It discharged completely and wouldn't recover. I ended up chucking it out, but in hindsight it may have been recoverable if the protection circuit had simply disconnected the battery cells from the terminals (to prevent further discharge). There may have been some way to re-boot the protection circuit.

When buying a lithium battery, it would be sensible to do your homework and find out exactly what it's built in protection circuitry does. Then you'll have a better understanding of how to charge it and what to do if it goes wrong.
 
Oh, one other thing. Lithium is very reactive. It can burst into flames when exposed to air. So if you rupture a lithium battery in an accident, it could start a fire.

Anyone who studied chemistry at high school will remember that lithium is a group 1 element (like sodium and potassium). Group 1 elements share a propensity to react exothermically with other substances. We've all seen what happens if you chuck a bit of potassium in water.

Here's what happens if you rupture a lithium battery.
 
SSB PowerSport Lithium Batteries are also one of the only Lithium Ion Batteries that can be charged using normal 12V car battery chargers / alternators except for chargers with Automatic Rejuvination or Desulphation Mode.
 
I've decided to stick with AGM type lead acid batteries in my road bikes for the following reasons:
  • No special technology required to charge them, and I can leave them on battery maintenance chargers when not in use.
  • Higher storage capacity (Amp.hours) which I reckon is more useful than massive CCA rating in a road bike. (For a given battery volume, lithium batteries provide greater cranking amps, but less storage capacity than AGM).
  • Lower price.
  • Longer life (in my experience at least).
  • Much lower risk of the bike going up in flames if the battery gets damaged.
Lithium batteries are good for race bikes where weight mitigation is important.
Also good for portable roller starters because of the light weight and prodigious cranking amps.
 
Just for info, if an AGM battery shows "fucked" on the smart charger because it is too discharged, you can momentarily connect a good battery together to the charger with it and the charger will then just charge it up.
 
You know more about batteries than me Cam so credit due. Thanks for the informative reply.
It seems that if I want to replace the current battery with something in the 400cca range that'll fit, it's going the cost me close to 400 bucks.
Can't see myself spending that much for a battery. First thing I'll do is up the size of the starter cables and see if that makes any difference.
I would have thought 13.3 volts is charged enough to turn the motor over.
 
Tippie said:
Just for info, if an AGM battery shows "fucked" on the smart charger because it is too discharged, you can momentarily connect a good battery together to the charger with it and the charger will then just charge it up.
Click to expand...

Yep. Done that several times. Smart chargers look for a voltage when connected to a battery. If it doesn't see a voltage within an acceptable range, It'll just sit there with a stupid look on its face.

I used to have a 'dumb' old charger for initial recovery of flat batteries. It was just a transformer and rectifier, with no clever circuitry. It would throw a current into anything you connected it to. Unfortunately it went for a swim while being carried onto a boat with an arm-load of other shit. I pulled it out of the water, washed it in fresh water and sat it in a warm spot for about a week to dry out. It worked for about 10 minutes after that, but then made a strange kind of 'wheee' noise and a final POP! as it let out a puff of smoke and passed into oblivion. A quick look inside revealed that the transformer core had blown apart. I reckon it got salt water in between the laminates of the core. Moisture turned to steam and blew the plates apart. It ended up in the bin, but in hindsight I probably should have sourced another transformer and fixed it. It was a handy thing for jump starting flat batteries.
 
Nice tutorial Cam, Thanks!

I hate to think how many potential bombs there are out there in lithium batteries that aren't fully sealed!!! A hell of a lot of bicycles and squillions of other apps. I'll be going a gel mesh on my bikes. Don't need to worry about a kg here or there (except in unsprung weight!).
 
I am even a bit over the unsprung weight thing as well, steel rear sprocket after the last 2 alloy ones were discovered less than pristine in the middle of long fun rides. Having no light in a dark shed doesn't help. Marty noticed in Bright,800ks from home there was 6 missing teeth once and last Oxley Ride the chain started jumping teeth again 600ks from home. Luckily I made it home both times. Be interested in seeing if I can pick the difference in suspension action and how long steel ones last. Maybe having such a full coverage chain guard hides any sproket defects until they show in how the bike goes.
 
In ultra green Norway where battery everything is as green as it gets, there have been countless fires from new battery powered personal transporters, even houses burned down from them, not even being charged at the time. Chemical fires are no bloody joke.
No harm in drilling your steel sprockets full of holes Vince. Unsprung weight just lets your suspension have an easier time, but sure no need to go completely overboard on a road bike.
 
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