RGS / SFC switch cluster wiring

S

sfc1000uk

Hero member
I'm having a blonde day:

anyone know what the green / red & green / white wires in the connector block of the left hand switch cluster do?

The wiring diagram shows 9 wires from the switch cluster. My switch cluster has 11 wires at the connector end of it all, 9 of which I've identified.

The new switch cluster I'm intending to replace the ND cluster with has 9 wires, all of which I have identified and I think i've sussed which terminals of the connector block they want to go to. I'm reasonably confident that if I conenct the new cluster up the lights, horn & indicators should work, so what am I missing?

<thinks> the RGS family have a third generator coil that comes on with the lights? I can't spot it in the wiring diagram but I seem to recall you can bypass it & run all 3 coils all the time. Worth doing?
 
Bob,

You've found the wire to the charging coil that kicks in once the lighting switch is flipped... :D

If the lighting switch is in good nick, you won't have any problems.  But, if it offers additional resistance due to dirty/burnt contacts, the connection of the wire may melt the solder and can then short the entire charging system, effectively heating the LH handlebar.  

This happened to me once (in the middle of the night, when else?), bike would not start after filling up.  I had noticed the lights were getting duller but thought I'd make it home till dawn.   After 10 minutes of going through the system in the light of the petrol station shithouse in the middle of nowhere, I found the connection had melted most of the solder blob and had shorted cleanly to the handlebar surface.  Cut it away with a knife and the lights turned bright again!  Once I returned home, I cleaned up the contacts and haven't experienced a problem since.  If the contacts don't clean up properly so you can rely on them, it could be best to permanently wire the charging coil to the regulator.  No real difference if full lighting is required in daylight.

piet
 
sfcpiet said:
Bob,

You've found the wire to the charging coil that kicks in once the lighting switch is flipped... :D

If the lighting switch is in good nick, you won't have any problems.  But, if it offers additional resistance due to dirty/burnt contacts, the connection of the wire may melt the solder and can then short the entire charging system, effectively heating the LH handlebar.  

This happened to me once (in the middle of the night, when else?), bike would not start after filling up.  I had noticed the lights were getting duller but thought I'd make it home till dawn.   After 10 minutes of going through the system in the light of the petrol station shithouse in the middle of nowhere, I found the connection had melted most of the solder blob and had shorted cleanly to the handlebar surface.  Cut it away with a knife and the lights turned bright again!  Once I returned home, I cleaned up the contacts and haven't experienced a problem since.  If the contacts don't clean up properly so you can rely on them, it could be best to permanently wire the charging coil to the regulator.  No real difference if full lighting is required in daylight.
piet
Click to expand...

The LH switch on the RGS we got from BevelMan is a bit dodgy, and blew the fuse on the way from Brisbane, and has blown 2 more since - each time the light switch ise turned on or off (button has no cap and pushes in and makes contact with the bars I think, creating a short to earth).
I am thinking about replacing it with a generic late model Suzuki unit which has the much nicer push-to-cancel indicator switch, but has no on/off switch for the lights (ie they are always on once the ingition is turned on).
If I replace the switch block with a Suzuki unit, what do I do with the 2 white wires with stripes that would be the ones Bob has identified?
Do you just connect the two wires together to create a direct circuit for the charging circuit to feed the regulator, or is there some other way the connection needs to be made?
 
Simplest to just connect the 2 wires.  Might need to run the lights constantly to avoid frying the regulator, don't know how well it would cope with the constant higher amperage.

piet
 
sfcpiet said:
Simplest to just connect the 2 wires.  Might need to run the lights constantly to avoid frying the regulator, don't know how well it would cope with the constant higher amperage.
piet
Click to expand...

Thanks, Piet.
Looking at the inside of the original switch there are at least 2 separate circuits being opened when the light switch portion is turned from off to on.  One goes to lights, and the other appears to join the white/yellow wire and the white/red (as I recall the colours)  to simply open the circuit from the alternator to the regulator.  So I think that I am safe because with the new switch the lights are always on so the circuit to the regulator should, by the same logic, also be always open.
Crossing my fingers......... ::)
 
sfcpiet said:
Bob,

You've found the wire to the charging coil that kicks in once the lighting switch is flipped... :D

If the lighting switch is in good nick, you won't have any problems.  But, if it offers additional resistance due to dirty/burnt contacts, the connection of the wire may melt the solder and can then short the entire charging system, effectively heating the LH handlebar. 

This happened to me once (in the middle of the night, when else?), bike would not start after filling up.  I had noticed the lights were getting duller but thought I'd make it home till dawn.  After 10 minutes of going through the system in the light of the petrol station shithouse in the middle of nowhere, I found the connection had melted most of the solder blob and had shorted cleanly to the handlebar surface.  Cut it away with a knife and the lights turned bright again!  Once I returned home, I cleaned up the contacts and haven't experienced a problem since.  If the contacts don't clean up properly so you can rely on them, it could be best to permanently wire the charging coil to the regulator.  No real difference if full lighting is required in daylight.

piet
Click to expand...
I've got a similar query on a Jota 120 to avoid running the high 3rd coil generator current through the loom,twice via the LH switchgear.
Rather than connect these 3rd coil wires and run it full time (with the overload risk on the Regulator) I was considering using the contacts in the light switch that bring it on line (VB to Gr & VR to relay on mine) to drive a relay more locally.

40A SP should be ok shouldn't it? (480W).

It could be switching quite a high current so was thinking it should have some arc suppression.
Some sort of snubber circuit  across the coil?

I have everything out on the bike now, so is the right time to do anything like this, although I will keep it all reversible , I think, so could always be removed.

Any advice, Piet?
 
Consider running your high and low beam through relays directly from the battery (fused of course), makes a hell of a difference when riding at night IMHO.
 
relay for the horn?

I'm curious about the start relay earth lockout - is this so the starter won't spin unless you're in neutral?
 
sfc1000uk said:
relay for the horn?
Click to expand...
Yes, I forgot that one, it was there from a previous mod

sfc1000uk said:
I'm curious about the start relay earth lockout - is this so the starter won't spin unless you're in neutral?
Click to expand...
Sorry. Not a relay for this one. Just routing the earth from the starter relay via the neutral switch, so that -yes- starter will only engage when bike is in neutral
See (although things have moved on in other areas, that makes this diagram out of date,now
http://www.laverdaforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13161/Jota_120_Wiring_Diag.pdf
 
just change the regulator for a 3 phase unit and then run all 3 phases back to the regulator like a normal set up
Shindengen SH-530 is perfect, $20 at any bike wrecker, found on 75% of jap bikes

 
redax5 said:
just change the regulator for a 3 phase unit and then run all 3 phases back to the regulator like a normal set up
Shindengen SH-530 is perfect, $20 at any bike wrecker, found on 75% of jap bikes
Click to expand...
Like this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KAWASAKI-ZZR250-REGULATOR-RECTIFIER-SH530-12-GOOD-WORKING-ORDER-/251860488605?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3aa40e119d
That sounds straightforward! Thanks
Why then did Laverda do something as complicated as mobilising a third phase only when the lights came on , if they could just have used a different regulator ??? or werent they available then?
 
Ppuxley said:
Like this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KAWASAKI-ZZR250-REGULATOR-RECTIFIER-SH530-12-GOOD-WORKING-ORDER-/251860488605?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3aa40e119d
That sounds straightforward! Thanks
Why then did Laverda do something as complicated as mobilising a third phase only when the lights came on , if they could just have used a different regulator ??? or werent they available then?
Click to expand...

Neither complicated nor unnecessary, actually rather clever.

http://www.laverdaforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,91409.0.html  :D

piet
 
sfcpiet said:
Neither complicated nor unnecessary, actually rather clever.

http://www.laverdaforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,91409.0.html  :D

piet
Click to expand...

Piet
I understand about only needing the extra alternator capacity of the third phase when the lights are on and it being more efficient just running two phases the rest of the time.
So using all three phases all the time as Red suggests through the SH-530 is or isn't a good idea? And if not, the use of a relay to avoid running the third phase all the way to the handlebar switch and back, is that? ...........or just leave as is.
Patrick
 
Patrick,
majority of Jap bikes are running 3 phase systems and they use a 3 phase regulator so surely they can not all be incorrect.

Output from an alternator is not 12 volt by the way, it needs the regulator to convert it
have measured around 19 volts on each phase when measured direct, depending on the system
the Kawasaki 250 that you refer to in the Fleabay add has a 3 phase alternator as we used to use them for our Series 1 ignition/charging circuit upgrades hence I know those systems fairly well

can also use the Kawasaki 250 stator to replace the Nippon Denso Series 2 and RGS/RGA/SFC stator, is a bolt in replacement
 
redax5 said:
Patrick,
majority of Jap bikes are running 3 phase systems and they use a 3 phase regulator so surely they can not all be incorrect.
Click to expand...

No, I agree, Red, I was just wrong footed by Piets comment.  I get that the switching in and out of the third coil is  electrically efficient, but the lengths that Laverda go to achieve this, ie running the cables up to the switch and back seems like a costly option when all they had to do was use a different Regulator and not run the cables the length of the bike
 
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