RGS1000SFC Oil Pump Install Question

fairly sure that 180 Jota's had 9mm wide gears at the end, of the run, as did 1200's, but first ones (Jotas) may not have, and would have been thinner, the 10mm wide gears did not come into play until the RGS was on the market, they may have found their way into the Jota 120, but this is unconfirmed, I don't think any 180 had 10mm gears as factory, although their is not much difference between 9mm and 10mm (not even 10%) but just think what they must have been like with 6mm, what size on factory drummers
someone?
 
Early triples had 7mm gears, this changed with the inception of the 1200 to 8mm.  The 120? engines got 9mm wide gears, together with a completely different tooth shape and gear diameter, resulting in a far higher boost in output than just 10%...

Most aftermarket pumps use 10mm gears, simply to utilise the same gears as used in the twin pumps, still don't achieve the flow volume of the 120? pumps though.

piet
 
The internal oil drillings to the center main crank bearings are the same for the 180 and 120 but are bigger on the RGS.
I first thaught is was a oil to center main increase but after further consideration I beleve it was for extera under piston cooling 
 
Jugs_S said:
The internal oil drillings to the center main crank bearings are the same for the 180 and 120 but are bigger on the RGS.
I first thaught is was a oil to center main increase but after further consideration I beleve it was for extera under piston cooling 
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Jugs! I believe the transition happened DURING Jota 120 production, if you look at my photo's on reply #8 of this thread you can see what looks like a revision of oil gallery design (visible externally) between engine #8192 and #8408.
 
agree Simon, but am I right in thinking that your original engine would (of course) be a Jota 120, but that the one you use is from an RGS?
you could have the answer to my transitional question right in your garage, 9mm or 10 mm gears on the Jota 120?
deffo 10mm gears on the RGS, deffo 9mm gears on the 180.(Jota)
CLEM
 
CLEMTOG said:
agree Simon, but am I right in thinking that your original engine would (of course) be a Jota 120, but that the one you use is from an RGS?
you could have the answer to my transitional question right in your garage, 9mm or 10 mm gears on the Jota 120?
deffo 10mm gears on the RGS, deffo 9mm gears on the 180.(Jota)
CLEM
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Not quite Clem, they are both Jota 120 engines (the first Jota 120 was apparently #8138, the last one approximately 8550:

* Non original 8192 is installed in my bike, sourced from a European Jota 120 and has A11 cams.
* Original 8408 is sulking in some disrepair in the garage - has 4C cams and is UK spec.

I could do some digging with 8408 and see if it is 10mm gears.
 
sfcpiet said:
The 120? engines got 9mm wide gears, together with a completely different tooth shape and gear diameter, resulting in a far higher boost in output than just 10%...

Most aftermarket pumps use 10mm gears, simply to utilise the same gears as used in the twin pumps, still don't achieve the flow volume of the 120? pumps though.

piet
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I would just go by Piet's comments. I think he knows what's what. What?
 
Grant said:
I would just go by Piet's comments. I think he knows what's what. What?
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Unfortunately, my note keeping is quite miserable... I'll find my oil pump notes eventually.  Worked out flow rates for all twin and triple pumps many years ago, quite sure I have posted them here in the distant past.

piet
 
SimonR501 said:
Thanks, will have to amend that then.
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And I have #8144. Will (Jugs) sent out a bunch of useful factory diagrams for the Jota 120 and one sheet stated the first Jota 120 was numbered 8138. JLO has also included this info on his website.

Do keep up Simon..........😀

Ian
 
SimonR501 said:
Jugs! I believe the transition happened DURING Jota 120 production, if you look at my photo's on reply #8 of this thread you can see what looks like a revision of oil gallery design (visible externally) between engine #8192 and #8408.
Click to expand...

The drillings in the top case that lead down to the center mains are different along the track some where. But my 120 engine is not a good one to work from, as it has a donner top case from 1200*3185* from Laverdamania Registry that number is in the middle if a batch of 1200 TS. The Bottom case is definitely off 120 Jota Frame # is 8168. I had a thread talking about this just after I joined the forum. I'm very interested when they changed the drilling size to center mains and pump gear size as I'm just about to take the top case off and plan to increase the drillings to the later size and check it has the larger pump gears. 
 
Yes it sounds weird but with much research I believe it through a rod center main (it had a different con rod on it ) through the back top of the top half of the crank case.

I would have bet you could not throw a top half crank case on to a non matched bottom case and it fit at the crank and gear box machinings. But I believe that is what "Eades" did. The bottom is LH Gear everything else looks the same as Martys and Marks 120 that are here in Sydney that I have ridden and worked on. The top case is 1200*3185*  as mentioned before which from the Register is a best guess a 1200 TS which has RH Gear change. The top case has throats for the 1200 barriles. It all fits and dose not leak. Yes very odd. 

Apologies for the thread hi jack

Jugs
 
Will, was that the one that had (I think) a 500 rod replacing the triple rod? And you reckon that was a product of Jim Eade's? Well that does it, I won't buy my next Jota from them. Ted Saga gets my money. :D :D

Ken
 
mcnicol said:
Will, was that the one that had (I think) a 500 rod replacing the triple rod? And you reckon that was a product of Jim Eade's? Well that does it, I won't buy my next Jota from them. Ted Saga gets my money. :D :D

Ken
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That is quite a feat in itself, Ken!

500 big-end bore is 45mm, triples are 46mm, 500 rods are about 30mm shorter... must have been one helluva mechanic!

piet
 
The story as told to me

Tony went in to Eads to buy a RGS just after they came out and could not quite afford it. On the floor was a 120 Jota that belonged to the Mechanic which he bought from the Mechanic even though it was displayed on the floor. He was told the Previous owner had been riding it and had gone down the road in the Blue Mountains Mechanic had bought it and repaired and here it was original 120 Jota for sale. No mention of Engine rebuild or con rod going through case or changing con rod on crank.

It was not till I stripped the engine because the Phasing was out +6 Deg that we found a different con rod on the crank (it looked like a 180 rod) They all got changed to the later model copper flashed small end type in the end. As it was the first Laverda Engine I had pulled down at the time the difference in Eng Frame number did not  strike me. So it was not till I had more knowledge that I suspected the rest but can not prove it. 

Engine has been rebuilt Crank by Red. Steve B and myself went up to Reds and together with Red sorted the rig for the 120 crank phase check. I think Tonys (mine) was the first and Steve B the second 120 crank Red did. Engine goes like a train so its all good, but like all Lav's if you know enough of there history there is some weirdness. 

Would love to know who the first owner was and get the rest of the story.

Jugs
 
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