redfox
Hero member
Hello everyone,
I've been looking at old threads, visiting shops, looking at internet sellers etc. for brake pads fitting Laverda old school brake calipers F08/P08, Black and goldline, plus later 4 piston P4-30/34 40mm spacing single pin, and later P4 30/34 double pin 65mm spacing, as these calipers seems to be the most popular in use for our Laverda triple bikes. I don't know yet if the machined one-piece versions use similar pads or thinner, so will update on that as I find out, or others comment on this.
I'd like to keep this thread free of other discussions or general talk of other subjects (as I often do myself
), so please try to add info relevant to this subject, avoiding comments like "Who need to brake anyway?" etc.
If there is a mistake or errors in what I type here, please feel free to correct me, so I'll update anything I write here.
When I first started driving a motorcycle 32 years ago and Laverda around 25 years ago, (now 2018), the pads available for the P08 and alike calipers were traditional, with asbestos pads on the way out of the market, giving way for NAO or organic (early type) pads, giving okay'ish braking power in dry conditions, but fading eventualy, and wet driving were quite bad with less grip and need for running off Water from the discs before actual braking could commence.
Then I saw sintered pads, which worked a bit better for me at least, but were hard on brake discs, making them thin quicker.
Today I think modern research and friction materials have given the possibility to have better brakes, while not actually having the need for a total redesign.
Discs are cast iron and come in 280mm front and rear single piece or bolted with alu bells, or 300mm fully floating with alu bells with cast iron discs fron, 280 rear (as on a Corsa) or bolted two piece.
I have not myself had stainless brake discs, so cannot comment on that yet. Will update if possible.
Pad types:
According to Brembo, their pads are divided into 3 categories:
A/ Sintered pads. Pads with metal bits mixed into brake resin. A traditional pad relieving the very old brake pads.
Somewhat hard to brake discs, both cast iron discs and stainless steel discs.
B/ Organic pads. Pads with organic fibres mixed into the brake resin to sustain higher friction level and avoid sintering the friction material. Seem to be more gentle to the brake discs.
C/ Carbon ceramic pads. a mix of carbon, ceramic and brake pad resin. Deliver yet higher friction than previous 3 and add more braking control in dry and wet conditions. These pads are supposed to be lighter as well. I don't know if they transfer heat to the pistions as well as say sintered does. Will update on this as I find out.
Similar is mad by others such as Lucas, Grimeca, Ferodo and others.
Other comments to brake pads:
- I dab a Little copper slip on the rear side of the pad to make them scream or vibrate less. I take the pads out once a year and clean them, inspect and repeat.
- I also relieve the edges very lightly before installation in calipers.
- I sand the new pad very lightly on the friction material before installation in calipers. This is debatable with break-in surface.
- Most discs need to make a transfer layer outermost to the pads. Method seems to be something like brake medium from say 100-60, not excessively hard. Cool off, repeat a number of times, the repeat with 100-30 in similar way.
- the standard pads delivered with say P04 calipers, I have no idea if they are hard on disc (Wear) or indeed suited to cast iron discs or not, but while I think they perform okay on dry road and definately better than P08 setup on same discs, I could surely need more braking power and bite (p4 on 300 fully floating discs).
Questions so far:
1/ How does the carbon ceramic pads compare to other types when installed on our bikes?
2/ How does the carbon ceramic pads perform generally? Friction, bite, longevity, pad Wear, disc Wear, fade, Cold/wet?
3/ How does the organic pads compare to other types when installed on our bikes?
4/ How does the organic pads perform generally? Friction, bite, longevity, pad Wear, disc Wear, fade, Cold/wet?
5/ How does individual makes of same pad type perform against each other?
6/ What is the best biting pad Cold/heated/wet with the least amount of disc wear, for the rear brake on a triple?
7/ Which type give lesser dust?
8/ which pad type is best for road?
9/ which pad type is best for track?
10/ which pad type is best for both (if possible)?
Please feel free to write your comments onhere, so I'll delete the questions as they are answered. In this way this is a dynamic thread, and I will try to keep it updated.
I sincerely hope you guys who experimented with this will chime in with your experience.
Kind regards,
Jacques
I've been looking at old threads, visiting shops, looking at internet sellers etc. for brake pads fitting Laverda old school brake calipers F08/P08, Black and goldline, plus later 4 piston P4-30/34 40mm spacing single pin, and later P4 30/34 double pin 65mm spacing, as these calipers seems to be the most popular in use for our Laverda triple bikes. I don't know yet if the machined one-piece versions use similar pads or thinner, so will update on that as I find out, or others comment on this.
I'd like to keep this thread free of other discussions or general talk of other subjects (as I often do myself
), so please try to add info relevant to this subject, avoiding comments like "Who need to brake anyway?" etc.If there is a mistake or errors in what I type here, please feel free to correct me, so I'll update anything I write here.
When I first started driving a motorcycle 32 years ago and Laverda around 25 years ago, (now 2018), the pads available for the P08 and alike calipers were traditional, with asbestos pads on the way out of the market, giving way for NAO or organic (early type) pads, giving okay'ish braking power in dry conditions, but fading eventualy, and wet driving were quite bad with less grip and need for running off Water from the discs before actual braking could commence.
Then I saw sintered pads, which worked a bit better for me at least, but were hard on brake discs, making them thin quicker.
Today I think modern research and friction materials have given the possibility to have better brakes, while not actually having the need for a total redesign.
Discs are cast iron and come in 280mm front and rear single piece or bolted with alu bells, or 300mm fully floating with alu bells with cast iron discs fron, 280 rear (as on a Corsa) or bolted two piece.
I have not myself had stainless brake discs, so cannot comment on that yet. Will update if possible.
Pad types:
According to Brembo, their pads are divided into 3 categories:
A/ Sintered pads. Pads with metal bits mixed into brake resin. A traditional pad relieving the very old brake pads.
Somewhat hard to brake discs, both cast iron discs and stainless steel discs.
B/ Organic pads. Pads with organic fibres mixed into the brake resin to sustain higher friction level and avoid sintering the friction material. Seem to be more gentle to the brake discs.
C/ Carbon ceramic pads. a mix of carbon, ceramic and brake pad resin. Deliver yet higher friction than previous 3 and add more braking control in dry and wet conditions. These pads are supposed to be lighter as well. I don't know if they transfer heat to the pistions as well as say sintered does. Will update on this as I find out.
Similar is mad by others such as Lucas, Grimeca, Ferodo and others.
Other comments to brake pads:
- I dab a Little copper slip on the rear side of the pad to make them scream or vibrate less. I take the pads out once a year and clean them, inspect and repeat.
- I also relieve the edges very lightly before installation in calipers.
- I sand the new pad very lightly on the friction material before installation in calipers. This is debatable with break-in surface.
- Most discs need to make a transfer layer outermost to the pads. Method seems to be something like brake medium from say 100-60, not excessively hard. Cool off, repeat a number of times, the repeat with 100-30 in similar way.
- the standard pads delivered with say P04 calipers, I have no idea if they are hard on disc (Wear) or indeed suited to cast iron discs or not, but while I think they perform okay on dry road and definately better than P08 setup on same discs, I could surely need more braking power and bite (p4 on 300 fully floating discs).
Questions so far:
1/ How does the carbon ceramic pads compare to other types when installed on our bikes?
2/ How does the carbon ceramic pads perform generally? Friction, bite, longevity, pad Wear, disc Wear, fade, Cold/wet?
3/ How does the organic pads compare to other types when installed on our bikes?
4/ How does the organic pads perform generally? Friction, bite, longevity, pad Wear, disc Wear, fade, Cold/wet?
5/ How does individual makes of same pad type perform against each other?
6/ What is the best biting pad Cold/heated/wet with the least amount of disc wear, for the rear brake on a triple?
7/ Which type give lesser dust?
8/ which pad type is best for road?
9/ which pad type is best for track?
10/ which pad type is best for both (if possible)?
Please feel free to write your comments onhere, so I'll delete the questions as they are answered. In this way this is a dynamic thread, and I will try to keep it updated.
I sincerely hope you guys who experimented with this will chime in with your experience.
Kind regards,
Jacques
