Swing-arm brace no Laverda content .. or maybe so.

chrisk

Hero member
I have been looking at some rock hard expandable foam products, and wondered if anyone has used such a product for bracing an aluminium swing arm (or anything similar), given you can get in the ends. Light, looks standard from outside.
 
Not foam filled. But I have some vague recollection of someone (I think it may have been Porsche) using a chassis made from big hollow tubes pressurised with gas. I'm not sure whether the gas was there to add rigidity to the thin walls of the tubes by keeping them in tension, or simply to give a warning in case of the chassis developing a crack, in which case the reading on the pressure gauge would drop.
 
Cam that was the Porsche 917 that our own Frank Gardner had a hand in developing way back when. I remember him telling me the story that they used very thin wall tubing that they had a bit of a problem with the chassis cracking  so they filled them with nitrogen with a guage in plain sight to tell them if the tubes cracked ........... Scary shit hey
 
Couple of things, does that foam decay over time. Some foam tape turns to dust over time.Water resistant? If you do it you would need to start deep in the end of the tube and withdraw the applicator as you go, I think it needs air to set so maybe it will remain goo in the centre. It will need some experimenting.It's really hard to contain this stuff or estimate where the expanding will stop. Its definitely got some potential, add it to a thin empty can of coke and you could drive nails in with it then.
 
Vince said:
Couple of things, does that foam decay over time. Some foam tape turns to dust over time.Water resistant? If you do it you would need to start deep in the end of the tube and withdraw the applicator as you go, I think it needs air to set so maybe it will remain goo in the centre. It will need some experimenting.It's really hard to contain this stuff or estimate where the expanding will stop. Its definitely got some potential, add it to a thin empty can of coke and you could drive nails in with it then.

I ask, because I found this stuff that was like the normal gap filler, but was in fact aluminium open cell structure that they make structural/acoustic boards from.
 
Foam sandwich construction is useful in the building industry. You can make quite rigid building panels out of it that have built-in insulation. The skin takes bending loads while the foam core gives it shear strength.

It's also used in boat construction, but more often with a honeycomb core than expanded foam. This type of material is especially useful for racing yachts where you want a high strength to weight ratio.

This type of sandwich construction is generally known in engineering circles as a composite beam. That doesn't necessarily mean it's super strong, just that you get reasonable stiffness from a light weight structure. There are plenty of stronger construction materials available, but there's a weight penalty. For example, I have a steel boat. If I was involved in a collision with a honeycomb composite racing yacht, I might knock a bit of paint off my boat, but would more than likely punch a hole through the racing yacht and sink the bloody thing. But mine is a cruising yacht where light weight is less of a priority than strength. A mate once described my boat rather un-kindly as a shipping container with a pointy front end welded on.

I can't see foam filling being particularly useful in something like a "normal" alloy motorcycle frame or swing-arm. You're looking for high strength and stiffness, and typically that's achieved with reasonably thick-walled metal tubing. Filling the inside of the tube with foam isn't going to improve it by much.

However, it would be useful in a large, thin-walled box section type of structure, mainly to keep the sides of the box from buckling and also give it a bit of shear rigidity. I'm thinking of something like a monocoque carbon fibre box filled with foam. It's been done before though, so it isn't a new concept. Have a look at a Ducati MotoGP bike or even as far back as the early 1990s with John Britten's V1000.
 
Hey Cam I used to work for a company in Strathfield called Hazet tools, high quality German tools & Frank Gardner & a few other race type guys would come into the place to buy some specialized stuff. Was always good when he came in he used to run the JPS BMW team real down to earth aussie bloke always had good stories to tell. Sadly no longer with us.
 
Bracing the shape would be the effect you're looking for Chris, plus the foam bonding to the surface. Honeycomb monocoques were around way back when Norton was at its original end. Peter Wiliams I think was the engineer involed
 
levo said:
Cam that was the Porsche 917 that our own Frank Gardner had a hand in developing way back when. I remember him telling me the story that they used very thin wall tubing that they had a bit of a problem with the chassis cracking  so they filled them with nitrogen with a guage in plain sight to tell them if the tubes cracked ........... Scary shit hey
That method was fairly common on TZ Yamahas too.
 
The highest priority for strength in a swingarm is to stop twisting, making each side work together as one. The foam won't do anything to help that.
 
A swinger suffers alternating stresses and strains. I doubt the characteristics of foams and honeycombs are very good for such loads; i,e, fatigue. (agree with others, the foam is more or less a filler to keep the light/thin load bearing material in the right place; kinda like the vertical section in an 'I' beam)
 
Paul H said:
A swinger suffers alternating stresses and strains. I doubt the characteristics of foams and honeycombs are very good for such loads; i,e, fatigue. (agree with others, the foam is more or less a filler to keep the light/thin load bearing material in the right place; kinda like the vertical section in an 'I' beam)

On the arm in question, the bracing and gusting at the front is cast alloy, the arm tubes themselves are the weak point.

4:30am thought: Cut some very open cell foam slightly larger than the tube, completely impregnate the foam with JB Weld and use a rod to push the foam into the far reaches of the tubes, leaving enough open area for the internally fitted adjusters.

Similar result to aluminium honeycomb...... no?
 
Seems to me that any internal stiffening bracing needs to be attached to the internal surface of the tubing, not free to just rattle around. I can't see expanding foam sticking to any surface effectively.

Just my opinion!

Cheers,

bazzee
 
If it's like the gap filling foam in a can that stuff sticks diabolically, the only way I can get it off my skin is with a single-sided razor blade. Even wearing gloves it's really easy to get it on you and your clothes and nothing appears to be a solvent. Think Fairy Floss made with Epoxy glue.
 
30 years ago we used to just spray expanding foam into sailing dingy aluminium extruded masts.

I think racing rules limited foam height up to the spreader, being the most stressed point.
 
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