Valve springs for triples - best practice?

Paul LeClair

Paul LeClair

Administrator
Staff member
Location
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
as I happen to have the 82 1200 TS Mirage head dis assembled at the moment, I was looking at the valve srpings. Motor has 10,200 kms on it from new, but sat unused from 1999 - 2013.

The valve springs "look" fine, they appear to all be the same length at least and not rusty.

what are the latest/greatest/best valve springs available for a triple motor, who sells them, and roughly how much?

anyone?

Paul LeClair
 
Never had any issues with the stock springs, just make sure they are within factory specs.

Easy, really... :D

piet
 
get them from Mr Phill Todd, and hope he has few left, because he did have them made in batches and could be out of stock.

I have had springs from other UK and foreign dealers witch go coil bound with 4C cams and nice new seats giving thick shims, two sets from two different sources, one of those sets was so badly made and cut, that the spring cups would not fit inside them, they are gardened/tempered of course, and the seller simply told me to get a dremel and grind off the offending ends of sprinfgs until the cups fitted in !!!!! I didnt bother telling hm that the free length of them varied by abour 4mm accross the set, so what the installd lengths and pressures would have been like is anybodies guess.
CLEM
 
Paul, these folks down in California may be a source for valve springs. http://www.rdvalvespring.com/spring_specs.html

They list some vintage bikes..not Laverda. R&D have some older Laverda parts listings in the business archive. No doubt they can supply valve springs if you have the specs.

I recall the OEM Laverda valve springs would get "soft" in production racing applications. Changing out the OEM valve springs every so often during a racing season improved lap times and revs. We went with some S&W valve springs from Rickey Racer, Lance Weil (RIP)..that solved the problem. They worked just fine long term with no issues. S&W valve springs don't appear to be available. They may be out of business.

Don't know if that experience would apply on a road going Laverda..but..after thirty or so years, I would think a new set of quality valve springs would be a good idea.
 
hi paul , new springs are worth another 500 rpm , that's what Richard slater told me and its true you can tell the crispness of the motor once they have been changed.
he also told me that's the only thing they ever changed on a racing jota as a matter of course
 
When I bought an RGS head from the engine sat in Slaters showroom for25 years or so, which Clem helped Richard remove, I had, as well as the seats 3 angled re cut, new springs sourced from one of the sources mentioned herein. They may have been fine, but 4 bent valves later and not many miles, they have been replaced with whatever Keith saw fit to put in, so hope Keith can say what they are! Ok I may well have missed a gear, but did that like most will have done and not had that consequence before. Is there any reason that should be more likely...and this is valve to valve not valve to piston contact, running 3c cams in an RGS head? It does spin up rather nicely and runs the Sachse ignition, so has a limiter at8.5 k I think, though that won't help if a gear is missed ..Shall we go desmo?!
 
I e mailed Keith about valve springs , with the time difference I am not expecting to hear from him at the earliest until my "tomorrow". His web site indicates he supplies "high performance" valve springs from  stock, so depending on availability and price I will likely order a set or two from him, but more likely to be fitted to my RGS "1200" and my 79 1200 Mirage with 4 C cams.

for the present project, I was in the middle of yet another parts order with Wolfgang anyway that he is about to ship, so I asked Wolfgang to add to the order six of his new modern German made valve springs for the 82 1200 TS, apparently those springs are  what Red is using in a lot of his engine builds, so if good enough for Red, probably more than I need for my mild A 11, stock piston, motor. The new valve springs should be the very last of the new parts required to be absolutely sure this motor is going to be a "good one" with all fresh wear parts.

once this current order arrives from Wolfgang, I am set to begin building, everything else is now prepared (except building up a fresh set of carbs, and that won't take me long)...... oh, and I still have to sort out what coils I am going to use, and ... and.... and decide on paint colour and get busy stripping the bodywork to bare materials..... and..... hmmmm maybe I am not as ready to build as I was thinking.... :o  ;)  :D

Paul LeClair
 
Rusty Spokes said:
Paul, these folks down in California may be a source for valve springs. http://www.rdvalvespring.com/spring_specs.html

They list some vintage bikes..not Laverda. R&D have some older Laverda parts listings in the business archive. No doubt they can supply valve springs if you have the specs.

I recall the OEM Laverda valve springs would get "soft" in production racing applications. Changing out the OEM valve springs every so often during a racing season improved lap times and revs. We went with some S&W valve springs from Rickey Racer, Lance Weil (RIP)..that solved the problem. They worked just fine long term with no issues. S&W valve springs don't appear to be available. They may be out of business.

Don't know if that experience would apply on a road going Laverda..but..after thirty or so years, I would think a new set of quality valve springs would be a good idea.
Click to expand...

I smiled when I saw your reference to Lance, polarizing personality, I quite liked him myself, last saw him at the 2005 NALOC gathering in Los Angeles.

For a while after Lance passed a son was selling off parts stock, I was after an all bare alloy Laverda tank that I actually bought for a fair price but turned out not to fit a Laverda as the son thought, the son was good to deal with and we sorted things out. Made me realize though that although my perception of Lance was as a Laverda guy he was a lot more than that, had all kinds of parts and frames for older racing British stuff as well, talented machinist, etc. R.I.P indeed.

at one point several years ago I made advances on Ed Lutz's Spondon Laverda Rickey Racer built by Lance, even tentatively suggesting to Ed that I might trade Ed my then 1971 Laverda SFC 750 drum brake 8000 series for the Spondon, but Ed didn't budge, that Spondon build Lance did is truly exceptional, still seems modernish even now all these years later...

Paul LeClair
 
Paul LeClair said:
for the present project, I was in the middle of yet another parts order with Wolfgang anyway that he is about to ship, so I asked Wolfgang to add to the order six of his new modern German made valve springs for the 82 1200 TS, apparently those springs are  what Red is using in a lot of his engine builds, so if good enough for Red, probably more than I need for my mild A 11, stock piston, motor. The new valve springs should be the very last of the new parts required to be absolutely sure this motor is going to be a "good one" with all fresh wear parts.
Paul LeClair
Click to expand...

that is correct, I buy my valve springs from Wolfgang as I have found that his springs are very uniform in valve seat load when tested in our Rimac Valve Spring tester, normally within 2-4 lbs per set of springs on both closed and open loads
I tried a few different suppliers and apart from Phil's springs which are very good but not always available in the quantities that I need, I found that Wolfgang's valve springs are by far the best. Standard order for us these days is 90 valve springs per order.

Bought one set from the UK quite a few years ago which were apparently the last set available and they were just total junk and as Clem noted varied in length as well. Remember testing them and closed load was in the vicinity of 90 lbs average and open way over 200 lbs average with a variation of approx 30 lbs across the set. Also looked like they had been cut with a drop saw and grinding wheel.

Wolfgang's springs come in at 62-65lbs closed on Inlets and 55-58lbs closed on Exhaust and depending on cam profile being used, 150-180lbs open, have approx 1-2.5mm free travel left before coil bind, again dependent on cam profile being used. These load figures based on using new Valves and with new Valve seats set at the stand off that we use for our new Valves, there are a lot of different dimensions that come into play that affect the spring load rates.

just stay with your standard coils, they will be Nippon Denso units and are fine to keep using, good coils, very rarely have any issues with them



 
Paul LeClair said:
I smiled when I saw your reference to Lance, polarizing personality, I quite liked him myself, last saw him at the 2005 NALOC gathering in Los Angeles.

For a while after Lance passed a son was selling off parts stock, I was after an all bare alloy Laverda tank that I actually bought for a fair price but turned out not to fit a Laverda as the son thought, the son was good to deal with and we sorted things out. Made me realize though that although my perception of Lance was as a Laverda guy he was a lot more than that, had all kinds of parts and frames for older racing British stuff as well, talented machinist, etc. R.I.P indeed.

at one point several years ago I made advances on Ed Lutz's Spondon Laverda Rickey Racer built by Lance, even tentatively suggesting to Ed that I might trade Ed my then 1971 Laverda SFC 750 drum brake 8000 series for the Spondon, but Ed didn't budge, that Spondon build Lance did is truly exceptional, still seems modernish even now all these years later...

Paul LeClair
Click to expand...

Lance was a one of a kind guy. Raced the IOM (forth place with a Triumph in 1967 production class..don't know if the Harley below finished) and was a sport. Think about racing at the IOM when Hailwood was campaigning the Honda sixes and the technology at the time..what an experience..you know you are in trouble when he referred to his shop as a "studio". Like most artist, brilliant and unpredictable. RIP Lance.

HDLANCEWEil.jpg


Lance liked new valve springs in a Laverda too.
 
the thing about valve springs is that if they are kept dry and reasonably warm, like in a cardboard box on a shelf ,they will "wait" a long time for you to use them,  but if they are installed in a head then they are under compression and "trying" all the time to extend, over 10/20/30 years they will lose tension just sitting there, more often than not, one of the six may well break if bumped into use.
CLEM
 
CLEMTOG said:
the thing about valve springs is that if they are kept dry and reasonably warm, like in a cardboard box on a shelf ,they will "wait" a long time for you to use them,  but if they are installed in a head then they are under compression and "trying" all the time to extend, over 10/20/30 years they will lose tension just sitting there, more often than not, one of the six may well break if bumped into use.
CLEM
Click to expand...

Hi Clem

New valve springs seems like inexpensive insurance to me for this motor build. Knowing that the motor sat unused for 14 years, I took it apart to the bare crank, bare transmission shafts, and I have renewed absolutely everything as a matter of course down to  the chains, chain guides, O rings, seals, piston rings, valve guide seals, clutch plates and springs, even the starter clutch springs and rollers, so once it is running and I am dialing it in I am hoping not to experience too many surprises...... ;)

Paul LeClair
 
I had the experiences of visiting Lance in several of his Rickey Racer "studios" over the many years I knew him. Studio yeah an appropriate term really as there was always at least one piece of Motorcycle art in the shop (a bike). I do remember Lance saying "replace your valve springs every 30,000 miles"  and "regularly if your racing."  Cheers Dave
 
couldnt agree more, new valve springs is a good and inexpensive plan, but its not easy to get a set that are 100% good, I would never buy valve springs from anywhere in Norfolk or Canada again, and others have stated the same about different places, so its a minefield, right enough.We did until very recently have a valve sproing manufacturer very close by to here, I wish I had commisioned a few hundred.
Clem
 
Just wondering whether there have been any advances in materials over the last 35 odd years which might mean longer lasting springs could be made? I seem to recall there were some heads with 2 springs per valve...what was that for? In my non expert way, I assume you want the minimum strength spring for the job, so that you get the valves shut without bounce and not too strong so as to sap power and wear valve train?
Are There any other bikes of the time whose valve springs might be a straight swap?
Nick7

 
well, the new valve springs from Wolfgang have already arrived here to my house, very quick shipping. The springs are made in Germany, apparently.

the degree of my testing sophistication is to look at them, they look new, look like springs....

someone with actual valve spring testing apparatus has confirmed to me they have thoroughly tested them and found them excellent, consistent, and fit for purpose.

Paul LeClair
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top