Mikuni RS 36's on a Triple

I had a similar stumble on the Mikunis on my Laverda.
Cured it by increasing the pilot jet size.
Can't recall from memory what size I used.
 
If you're using Resister caps on the high tension leads and resistor spark plugs, BR8ES I did that once on my Pantah and it ran like crap, fixed with B8 ES plugs.
 
Not sure what state of tune the 1200 Jota is but if it's got higher compression and 4C cams then you could be lean and need bigger main jet's.
Regards Andy 😁
 
Valve clearances ought to be checked with any recent acquisition. Not hard to do.
Did you install new exhaust gaskets? Classic symptoms you describe. Brett's, Maurice's (among others here) advice comes from experience. Lots of it..
Resistor plugs + resistor caps = too much resistance. Good point Vince..Weaker ignition voltage on the lean cyl?

Underside pic of bike also shows factory sidestand that looks like it could be retrofitted to my early triple. Anyone have a line one one? (I'm feeling lucky, just won a tee shirt) Maybe a close up of the attachment to frame.
Not into the kit offed over the years that involves a plate mounted to the footpeg bolt.

Hope you all had a happy Father's Day.
 
3CBRG said:
Underside pic of bike also shows factory sidestand that looks like it could be retrofitted to my early triple. Anyone have a line one one? (I'm feeling lucky, just won a tee shirt) Maybe a close up of the attachment to frame.
Not into the kit offed over the years that involves a plate mounted to the footpeg bolt.

The side stand kit with the adaptor plate on the footrest bolt is way better than the factory side stand. Much more solid and stable than the factory piece of shit.

The factory stand is attached via the left lower engine mount stud. It's in the wring place for good stability when the bike is parked on it, difficult to reach with your foot, and can damage the engine mount stud (I had one that stripped the fine thread on the stud). If you fit one, you'll end up hating it and will probably chuck it away before too long.
 
1200 JOTA said:
Timing is standard (as recommended) with a base angle set at 10 degrees (have tried 8 degrees) and a gradual curve from 12@2000 to 25@3000 and then up to 32 or 35 max.

Base advance isn't something that you fiddle around with to tune the engine. It isn't the idle advance setting as some people think. What it does is tell the ignition unit where the pickups are set relative to TDC. The ignition unit needs to know that bit of information as a reference point to apply the correct advance settings that are programmed into the map. It can vary between bikes, but once set for a particular installation, it never changes.

To find out what your base advance should be set to, use the following procedure.:

1. Download and save your ignition map.
2. Set all advance settings in the Ignitech map to zero, including base advance. You'll then have a flat advance curve of zero across all revs.
3. Fit a degree wheel and pointer, and zero to TDC using a piston stop in the spark plug hole. Re-fit the spark plug when done.
4. Connect a strobe light, start the engine and rev it a bit above idle to get a stable reading with the strobe. The reading on the degree wheel will usually be somewhere between 0? and 10? BTDC. That's where your pickups are relative to TDC, and it's the base advance figure you need to set in your Ignitech program.
5. Re-load your advance map and then set the base advance to the figure you determined above. That's it, you're done.

Once set, base advance never changes (unless you move the pickup base plate, in which case you'll have to do it all again). You can play around all you like with the advance settings in the map, but don't mess with the base advance or it'll throw the whole advance map out of phase with the crank position.

I like a base advance as close to TDC as I can get without going after TDC (Ignitech won't accept a negative base advance). Between 0? and 4?  is my preference. If it strobes at anything higher, then I'll move the pickup plate closer to TDC and re-strobe. The reason for that is because the engine cranks on the starter at low revs (before the advance map comes into effect) so it actually starts on whatever the base advance is. A small advance setting makes starting easier and gives the starter gear (starter motor, sprag clutch, etc.) a much easier time. The starter cranks the engine at around 200-400 rpm, depending on compression and the state of your battery. So set your first advance point on the map to 10? at around 500 revs. Once the engine fires, and revs pick up, the programmed advance map comes into effect and it'll settle into an idle at 10? advance.

PS: I've attached the advance map from my Jota below. It has Jota spec engine with HC pistons, 4C cams, big bore exhaust, Mikuni carbs, so may be similar to your engine. Max advance of 30? was determined on a dyno for max power at WOT.  As you can see, my base advance is 3?. Yours will be whatever you measure it at.
 

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My Jota has Mikuni RS 36 carbs and I'm reasonably happy with the way it runs. That's not to say it's perfect (air/fuel mixture isn't perfect through the entire rev and load range) but it's as good as I can get it with several dyno runs. It's significantly better than the old Dellortos that were on the bike previously.

Carb settings:
Main Jet 130
Needle Jet P-4
Jet Needle 5790 2H 5-50
Pilot (idle?) Jet 17.5
Float Height 20
Idle mixture screw 3/4 turn
Acc pump installed and operating. Haven't measured pump delivery rate.
 
3CBRG said:
Valve clearances ought to be checked with any recent acquisition. Not hard to do.
Did you install new exhaust gaskets? Classic symptoms you describe. Brett's, Maurice's (among others here) advice comes from experience. Lots of it..
Resistor plugs + resistor caps = too much resistance. Good point Vince..Weaker ignition voltage on the lean cyl?

Underside pic of bike also shows factory sidestand that looks like it could be retrofitted to my early triple. Anyone have a line one one? (I'm feeling lucky, just won a tee shirt) Maybe a close up of the attachment to frame.
Not into the kit offed over the years that involves a plate mounted to the footpeg bolt.

A couple of clarifications ..

Side-stand I believe is standard (aside from it being too short originally) and 38mm welded on to extend it to a reasonable and usable length. Now it is usable but you do need to extend it with your hand and then lean the bike in. I'd agree that the position is not ideal and that the bolt could shear, so I do plan on at least using a SS bolt a little later. I'd go for the retrofit version if possible.

I might have induced the problem as new exhaust gaskets not fitted ... so quite possible! However I did use HT silicone on one of the faces to hold them in during install. I'll check for any leaks.

My understanding of the TCIP is that it uses the 'voltage drop' point for timing below the first programmed idle setting and then uses the 'voltage rise' point for the rest of the advance map. That (timing) is reflected in the 'possible' max. advance when connected to the PC. So far I'm within 1 or 2 degrees (both pickups) of what is strobed. The width of the pickup is around 3 degrees maybe?

Either-way .. black box or not the machine strobes OK (not that that cures anything)!

Unfortunately I've just started a tour of duty driving freight around the world and cannot get my hands dirty for a few weeks (damn .. I hate it when work gets in the way of passions) so further investigation is not possible atm.

I'm still convinced that I can tune this stumble out and a couple of the posts suggest that that could be possible. However, as far as I know the cams are standard (A11) and the compression should be 8:1 but none of that has been checked yet!

The jet settings are truly appreciated and another source for investigation. As much as I like tooling around in the shed, I've learnt not to f*ck with too much unless I need to (I do like the fix it 'till it's broke moniker though  :D
 

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stay on it as soon as you can, with the help of this forum you for sure will find the source and cure it.

I am currently fixing up a Triumph 250 2-stroke my dad has since more than 25 years and which he has thrown quite some cash at to make it running. I think it did something like 200 km in the 25 years... :o

after taking the engine appart (again...), I found that the company that threw it together (a so called expert...) had installed the pistons in the wrong cylinders (left one in the right cylinder, resulting in one piston having a clearance of 0,09mm, the other 0,11; exchanging the two will give both 0,10 clearance...), has not checked the piston rings and not adjusted them (one was having the right gap, all others had a way to close clearance), has installed the piston pin of the right cylinder (which has one closed side) the wrong way around etc. etc. etc. Due to the heat procuded by all of that, the piston pin seat in the piston had closed up a bit so that the piston pin did not move out.

In addition, my dad maybe did not bed-in the new pistons/rings enough which caused some engine locks/piston locks  >:(

We hope to cure all that now when the replacement for one broken piston ring arrives (broke when the piston was out and I tried to remove it to measure the gap). Cross your fingers... ;-)

so - analyzing the issue is the route to success. Check all the basics and check mark they are within specs. It is like Sherlock Holmes said: "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth!"

good luck!!

 
I mounted 2 38 mechanical Mikuni's on a John Deer 440 2 stroke (Kawasaki Mill - Fan air cooled - Comet Clutch) Sport Fire Snow sled and beat anything that came close.

Gotta mix your Gas and mileage was not great however the power was one Hell of an 84 snowmobile ride.

Off course I modified the suspension and handling width.

An OEM mid 90's Artic Cat 700 may have have had little more on the top end BUT I blew them to shit.

My Machine was half the weight. Get stuck simply pick her up and paddle water like no other sled ;o)

Canvas belt Steel rails = 100mph in the 1/4 mile and yet handle like a dream.

The thing is finding that belt. Artic Cat makes them but not necessarily to your length  - So you Modify your John Deer ;o)

-------------------------

I can not over stress how important engine gaskets are whether they are 2 or 4 stroke.

When was the last Breganzie made ?
 
Hi Cam, if you have the info somewhere, what size air jet are you running? Hooksey on previous page states 0.8 air jet. Trying to suss out the keith nairn built 120 jota running mikunis. Hopefully running up the putty in the morning.

Hooksey, did you mean 10.8 air valve? Typo?
 
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Hi Cam, if you have the info somewhere, what size air jet are you running? Hooksey on previous page states 0.8 air jet. Trying to suss out the keith nairn built 120 jota running mikunis. Hopefully running up the putty in the morning.

Hooksey, did you mean 10.8 air valve? Typo?
Definitely .8
What are you chasing Moose ?
 
very old chart, who in their right mind would do that :cool:

Marty, pilot jet 17.5, main 127.5 or 125 for a 120, they like a leaner jet than the 180's, needle on middle slot, if it pops on trailing throttle into a corner raise the needle one slot
 
very old chart, who in their right mind would do that :cool:

Marty, pilot jet 17.5, main 127.5 or 125 for a 120, they like a leaner jet than the 180's, needle on middle slot, if it pops on trailing throttle into a corner raise the needle one slot
the old post still going 😀

0.8 seems to be 'the go' ... and will try raising the needle 1 slot

I'd still like to get a little more idle mixture adjustment than ' ... nipped up to 1/2 to 3/4 out' (kinda course?)
 
If it pops on trailing throttle into a corner raise the needle one slot
Coincidentally, mine was doing that, on a runout, today.
After I'd drained the float bowls and blown through the jets, I noticed that the resonators ("silencers") were both loose.
Tomorrow will tell if that's fixed it.
 
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