Jota speed testing/Practical Sportsbikes

How about a Laverda 75 against a Ceccato 75 test. Made in Thiene, 10km from Breganze, Ceccato were?
Instead of another Laverda Jota revival.

Paul
 
Vince said:
The Magazine was Performance Bike, they didnt do stock, this was a highly modified 120. There were 2 bikes tested, a 120 and a 180 owned by a couple of brothers, at Buntinthorp I think the place was called. The faster of the 2 blew a cloud of smoke crossing the timing beam, blown rocker gasket revealed later. This is a blurred from memory quote, from sometime in the 80s or 90s when hotted up Fireblades were producing well over 150hp and Laverdas were Dionsores. BTW John Roberson was the editor and by far the best technical bike writer ever. Loved that mag. They would real-world test stuff like brake fluid, using all sorts of gadgets to reveal that handler high temps the best etc.
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I bought the 180 in this article from Italia Moto in Lincoln in 2004, the bikes were owned by a pair of brothers called Clark IIRC, i kept it for 6 years and then in a moment of madness sold it for not much more than i paid for it, the reg was UHT613T - i had a break from Lavs until last year when i bought my 77' Jota - the bike in the article was listed on UK Ebay last year as a restoration project in bits!
 
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helicopterjim said:
What's a Slater? The Jota's were built at the factory.

Jim
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...and there`s me thinking they were built in Leamington Spa !.....When I said Slater spec it was a reference to Slater specification...All Jotas offered for sale were built at the factory , but later ones not with the original 10:1 pistons , for example. ( I`ve a feeling we`ve wandered down this cul-de sac a million times before).
Massimo Laverda said that the `76/77 Jota was his highest performing machine "Made to special order for Slater Brothers in England" to quote his exact words.

MCN did a similar feature in the mid `eighties starting with a Brough Superior SS100 from the `thirties . A Commando represented the `sixties , a Bromyard (is that ok?) Jota from the `seventies and a GSX1100 ( I think ) for the `eighties.
The article was by Richard Fincher if I recall , and the Bromyard was timed at 142 mph , the GSX obviously faster . The BrufSup managed over 100 mph.
I think quarter mile times were taken as well.
The conclusion was that out of the five bikes on test the Bromyard stood out as top musclebike (their term) of the decades for it`s still impressive speed and sheer excitement.
There was a great picture of the Bromyard being launched off the line on it`s back wheel.

BTW one of the Clark brothers featured in PS not that long ago with a Belt Drive 900SS.
 
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rocketonarail said:
...and there`s me thinking they were built in Leamington Spa !.....When I said Slater spec it was a reference to Slater specification...All Jotas offered for sale were built at the factory , but later ones not with the original 10:1 pistons , for example. ( I`ve a feeling we`ve wandered down this cul-de sac a million times before).

MCN did a similar feature in the mid `eighties starting with a Brough Superior SS100 from the `thirties . A Commando represented the `sixties , a Bromyard (is that ok?) Jota from the `seventies and a GSX1100 ( I think ) for the `eighties.
The article was by Richard Fincher if I recall , and the Bromyard was timed at 142 mph , the GSX obviously faster . The BrufSup managed over 100 mph.
I think quarter mile times were taken as well.
The conclusion was that out of the five bikes on test the Bromyard stood out as top musclebike (their term) of the decades for it`s still impressive speed and sheer excitement.

BTW one of the Clark brothers featured in PS not that long ago with a Belt Drive 900SS.
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Yes, I wrote the feature on his SS. Would have been 2013-14. He’s the one who contacted to ask for a rematch/offer a feature. This time I will likely extend the offer further to other serious Laverda specials… but one thing at a time.
 
A bit longer ago than I thought...I remember Clark Laverda adverts in the club magazine , I believe Phil (Todd) sold his crank rebuild service/knowhow to them.

First memory of John Robinson was testing a BSA Rocket 3 in 1969 for Motorcycle Mechanics (top speed 127 mph , "a machine for the experienced rider , not the faint hearted") was how he summed it up... Charles Deane was editor at the time.
His chin out cornering style in the pictures on that BSA would have impressed Jamie Whitham.
Motorcycle Mechanics morphed into Performance Bikes I believe , so that must have made him one of the longest serving journalists of one (if you add them together) motorcycling publication.
 
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Interesting article , but deference to bike age and owner property considerations didn`t do the Jota any favours over the standing quarter.
All the bikes were treated with this consideration in mind as the article explains , but whereas the Suzuki and BMW are relatively new bikes , and return results not far off their optimum , the Jota , being the slowest and oldest , returns results far removed from it`s optimum when treated in the same way.
14.89/96.45 mph aren`t far removed from Suzuki GS500 times.
Top speed was fairly consistent with what you might expect though , the same goes for passing times.
Richard Slater once had a Bosch black box test unit , that although looking as if it had been kicked up and down the road a few times was known to work perfectly.
In my perfect Laverda dream world , a Jota would be built around this Bosch black box , to full on `76 spec , sod the cosmetics , and then tested as Des Shiels would say , with a paper bag placed over the rev counter for this article .Not completely in the spirit of things maybe , but never mind.
Maybe Chris will do just that when the Mirage is completed (Roger Slater reckoned that if you hone out the barrels slightly and take some wet and dry to the cam followers , this will give a new engine the equivalent of 5000 miles wear , when it is at it`s best) - (12.3/118 mph is what you should be aiming for) , although the best time I`ve ever see quoted is 11.9/121 mph by Cycle World for a Jota.
Nice article though , always a good magazine.
Is Bruce Dunn really 73?

BTW , the FireBlade was at 44,000 km , not miles.
.
 
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BTW John Roberson was the editor and by far the best technical bike writer ever
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Yes John Robinson was about the best m/cycle journo in his time. We had a great dust up on the Chotts when MCM did a test on them - John also tested Chris Morphy's and my 3C in 1975 for MCM - John could ride off and on road with great ability and speed - brill on tech stuff too - he asked me to develop one of his computer programmes for the old Amstrad as I had one - but my PC abilities - and probably the old Amstrad were too limited. Back to subject - be great to see a decent jota article - but , to get one, a decent Jota would have to be supplied - agree the 76-77 were the best for performance
 
Vince said:
The Magazine was Performance Bike, they didnt do stock, this was a highly modified 120. There were 2 bikes tested, a 120 and a 180 owned by a couple of brothers, at Buntinthorp I think the place was called. The faster of the 2 blew a cloud of smoke crossing the timing beam, blown rocker gasket revealed later. This is a blurred from memory quote, from sometime in the 80s or 90s when hotted up Fireblades were producing well over 150hp and Laverdas were Dionsores. BTW John Roberson was the editor and by far the best technical bike writer ever. Loved that mag. They would real-world test stuff like brake fluid, using all sorts of gadgets to reveal that handler high temps the best etc.
Click to expand...
I have the mag - somewhere - I will try and find it and scan the article.
 
rocketonarail said:
Interesting article , but deference to bike age and owner property considerations didn`t do the Jota any favours over the standing quarter.
All the bikes were treated with this consideration in mind as the article explains , but whereas the Suzuki and BMW are relatively new bikes , and return results not far off their optimum , the Jota , being the slowest and oldest , returns results far removed from it`s optimum when treated in the same way.
14.89/96.45 mph aren`t far removed from Suzuki GS500 times.
Top speed was fairly consistent with what you might expect though , the same goes for passing times.
Richard Slater once had a Bosch black box test unit , that although looking as if it had been kicked up and down the road a few times was known to work perfectly.
In my perfect Laverda dream world , a Jota would be built around this Bosch black box , to full on `76 spec , sod the cosmetics , and then tested as Des Shiels would say , with a paper bag placed over the rev counter for this article .Not completely in the spirit of things maybe , but never mind.
Maybe Chris will do just that when the Mirage is completed (Roger Slater reckoned that if you hone out the barrels slightly and take some wet and dry to the cam followers , this will give a new engine the equivalent of 5000 miles wear , when it`s is at it`s best) - (12.3/118 mph is what you should be aiming for) , although the best time I`ve ever see quoted is 11.9/121 mph by Cycle World for a Jota.
Nice article though , always a good magazine.
Is Bruce Dunn really 73?

BTW , the FireBlade was at 44,000 km , not miles.
.
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The Jota's relative weight, lack of power and need for clutch abuse for the best time will always hamper it if treated with some consideration, as you say, but it's the right thing to do - sending it back knackered wouldn't have been. The lighter of the bikes with progressively greater excesses of power increasingly don't need much clutch slip to get a good time, you can get the clutch out and start using the torque. Every other bike is six speed with closer ratios, the gap between the Laverda's gear was noticeable and a factor too, especially with a gearchange that takes a bit of time compared to newer bikes which drop in. I'm not sure ignoring the rev counter would do much good, it's overgeared as it is and there was a few rpm left in top as it was. As is often the case with bikes on stock gearing. Our archive figures (from Motorcycle Mechanics - likely from John Robinson or Brian Crichton) show 12.2/110mph. Interestingly the less powerful RGS and RGA models do all but the same (12.4 at 105/108). An SFC also achieved 12.4 but with a 119mph terminal speed. From that, I'd say the weight and gearing are critical factors, as the extra power of a full-fat Jota doesn't seem to make a marked difference. But then, there's no telling how the conditions for those compared as they were tested year apart.

For me, it was the roll-on and braking tests that were most interesting - 1/4 mile and top speed are good bragging rights, but the rest are more relevant. In those areas, I thought it made a good show of itself, considering it was selected as the start of the development curve in the era the mag covers.

I'll very likely speed test my Mirage at some point, though they aren't as quick as the Jota. Having said that, the extra torque might help it off the line and through the gears better. I'm fitting Laverda Scozia's charging/ignition kit though, so it may gain and advantage from the nicer curve, at least through the gears if not flat out, so it wouldn't be a true representation of what Laverda/Slater made. Depending on the state of the bores it'll be on an oversize to some extent too. That's some way off though, I've got a bare frame in the garage awaiting the touch of a TIG torch, and a sad, seized engine to make its way to Scotland.
 
I`ve got that book too !....also the original test published in MCW.
John Nutting says the bike tested is the one raced by Pete Davies for Slaters , and was fitted with the close ratio gear clusters , with first some 18% higher than standard , plus sticky Dunlop race tyres which prevented spinning the rear tyre off the line which in turn meant careful slipping of the clutch to prevent frying the plates , all of which conspired to add a vital second to the time.
John justified testing the Jota in this form by saying the C/R box was a readily available option which a customer could have fitted to the bike , rather like the list of factory performance extras BSA offered for the Clubmans Gold Star
I like the way the terminal speed/time goes right off the graph.
It seems John had a reputation for frying clutch plates off the line , with this in mind when he was due to test the 3C(E) Roger Slater brought along a spare couple of sets of clutch plates ready to fit just in case...plus a set of various final drive sprockets (all readily available to the customer of course....) just to make sure the 3C(E) smoked the Kawasaki Z1 , current top dog at the time.
 
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Two Wheels January 1980.
Test (model year 1979) Jota. These numbers would have been achieved on the low octane fuel of the day.
 

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