Laverda 3cl starting issue

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You assume the battery is good, voltage readings ok.
It may not have enough cranking power left.
If the solenoid is not the problem, using the method above, try jump starting with a second battery.

Gerald
 
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Paul Marx said:
There's no solenoid on a Laverda.
It's a relay.
Paul
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You're almost right, Paul, if you had specified 'linear solenoid'.
Relays are solenoids that move a set of contacts in order to switch a circuit in. They are used in abundance in automomotive applications. As loads increase, the current paths are kept local instead of running all the way to switches. Thus, relays take advantage of low level signals to power higher current loads.
 
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The Sock said:
You're almost right, Paul, if you had specified 'linear solenoid'.
Relays are solenoids that move a set of contacts in order to switch a circuit in. They are used in abundance in automomotive applications. As loads increase, the current paths are kept local instead of running all the way to switches. Thus, relays take advantage of low level signals to power higher current loads.
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You're certainly right.
For me, a solenoid is a whatsit that sends the starter gear to engage with another gear to turn over the engine. As in car or Guzzi V twin.
Paul
 
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Caution on hand shorting across electric starter relay to a loaded starter motor, can get injury hot very quickly, screwdriver that you dont mind being arc damaged may be least worst. Stay away from the frame also with shorting device. Only need a brief touch to see if starter motor engages. HTH j
 
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Other than ignorance and fear, my excuses for not going there. Blowing up black boxes terrifies me. Old wifes tails also annoy me, I remember having a flat battery once in a Moutain Carpark at a Ski resort and having a jump start refused by a mate because it would damage the jumper's modern car, that at the time pissed me off as BS, still does. Cost me $50 from the local petrol station bloke to get it done. Had exactly that on my now modern car from the NRMA.
 
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Rob said:
Before trying the above remedies its worth checking you haven't got a cylinder full of fuel if you left the petrol taps on. If you remove the plugs and use the starter to do this, earth the plugs first.
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I wouldn't be removing and then earthing the plugs if I had a suspected hydraulic fuel lock in a cylinder. Hitting the starter could cause a spray of fuel from the plug hole, sending fuel droplets and vapour all over the place. You don't want a spark from an earthed plug anywhere near that volatile mixture.
A safer procedure would be to disable the ignition system before cranking the engine. Un-plug the ignition module or disconnect the 12V supply to the coils.
 
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Let me get this right: take the plugs out and earth them, presumably due to the length of the HT leads, close to the plug hole. Then switch on the ignition and hit the starter, hoping that any fuel in the cylinder doesn't geyser out and get ignited by the grounded plugs.:)
 
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O yer, one of my Uncles tried that on a Bulldozer when I was a kid and ended up with life-threatening 3rd-degree burns. What I didn't get now was spark plugs in a Desil Bulldozer. Apparently, they were adding petrol into the cylinder to get it to start, he had petrol engine experience but I bet he knew about as much as me about Desils which is Fuck all. I still remember the smell of the burns unit he was in at the Hospital. Don't get burns, very not good.
 
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Vince said:
O yer, one of my Uncles tried that on a Bulldozer when I was a kid and ended up with life-threatening 3rd-degree burns. What I didn't get now was spark plugs in a Desil Bulldozer. Apparently, they were adding petrol into the cylinder to get it to start, he had petrol engine experience but I bet he knew about as much as me about Desils which is Fuck all. I still remember the smell of the burns unit he was in at the Hospital. Don't get burns, very not good.
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Old bulldozers often used a small petrol engine (donkey?) to start the big diesel. And I imagine they could be as frustrating as an old mower.
 
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Dellortoman said:
I wouldn't be removing and then earthing the plugs if I had a suspected hydraulic fuel lock in a cylinder. Hitting the starter could cause a spray of fuel from the plug hole, sending fuel droplets and vapour all over the place. You don't want a spark from an earthed plug anywhere near that volatile mixture.
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Can and does happen. In fact I recall an inmate here was badly burned doing exactly that to a Laverda a few years back.

Dellortoman said:
A safer procedure would be to disable the ignition system before cranking the engine. Un-plug the ignition module or disconnect the 12V supply to the coils.
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^this
Also pack rags over the plug holes to soak up the atomised fuel if it is present.

As to the original question, it's hard to guess much from the description (what is 'whirring'?). But hydraulic lock is a good suggestion and one to exclude first since it can cause serious engine damage, then move on to the electrical/mechanical. Come back with some more info.
 
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Andy said:
Old bulldozers often used a small petrol engine (donkey?) to start the big diesel. And I imagine they could be as frustrating as an old mower.
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Yes. Known variously as the donkey engine or pony motor.

My very first job in 1969 when I was fresh out of school was as an apprentice diesel mechanic in the workshop of an open-cut mine (Savage River iron ore mine in Tasmania) at a pay rate of $1.33 per hour. The Caterpillar D9 bulldozers they used in the mine back then had the petrol engine as the starter motor. It was a lifetime ago and the memory is a little hazy, but I think the little pony motor was a 4-stroke parallel twin side valve engine with an electric starter motor. But if the battery was flat, you could start the pony motor with a crank handle. The pony motor shared the same cooling system as the diesel engine, so on cold starts, running the pony motor for a while would pre-heat the diesel engine.

The older hands in the workshop would play tricks on the apprentices by sending them off to get a left-handed hammer or spark plugs for a diesel engine. One of them sent me to get a set of spark plugs for a D9 'dozer. I had the last laugh because I came back with spark plugs for the starter motor. I must have passed some kind of initiation test because they didn't send me on fool's errands after that.
 
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Interesting, my uncle was with a family who owned big property in the bush and he was from the city. He had with a particular full-of-himself type of personality and I bet they decided to take him down a peg while trying to start that Dozer. It involved pouring petrol into the carb while trying to start it with a backfire and burning fuel spraying all over him, luckily it didn't quite kill him but it came close. The result was a 600k Emergency Ambulance trip to Sydney, months in a Burns unit and quite a few Skin Graphs.
 
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