1200 cam blocks

michipons

michipons

Hero member
Location
Palma de Mallorca
Hi all!!

Long time I haven’t posted anything, but I was active in my workshop with Laverdas and other projects, I think is healthy for a hobbist like me to change time to time.

I have now started the rebuild of my (maybe?) last Laverda as I don’t have any other to restore in the line.

It is a 1200 78’.

I have received all the parts from Wolfang to rebuild the cylinder head (and the rest of the engine), new valves, seats, guides, seals, thick shims and cam blocks. My blocks doesn’t look too bad but I thought it could be a good idea to start from 0 again and Wolfang told me that his NOS RGS cam blocks are far better than those I had in my original head. Once I have both in front of me I can’t say why they should be better apart from beeing new of course. i would have preferred to put the CNC ones from Red but he didn’t have them in stock, I have asked Red if he might have a set… lets see.

Now my problem. When I have tried to dummy install the new RGS blocks, they don’t fit because they have a higher “step”. So what should I do? Machine the blocks? The head? Put them in the “box of parts just in case someday I will need them and finally don’t”? It is worthy to change them? Are they really better?

Attached photos of both the original 1200 78’ cam blocks and the NOS RGS blocks.
ED768986-D6BD-41FC-BE78-99692A631880.jpeg

7CFA3FC3-F18D-4947-BE9C-2703EAD74BC2.jpeg
 
Have you considered returning them to Wolfgang with an explanation of the problem? Doing that may save some other customer a similar headache.
 
For what its worth and for some extra information on the subject,I had the same issue when I had to replace 2 of the cam blocks on my 180 Jota. I was able to purchase 2 original NOS blocks from the 120 degree engine as original items for the 180 were no longer available.
As with yours these had the larger locating step for better positioning but I was able to machine them (by hand) to match the originals and thereby fit my head.
It solved my original issue as 2 of mine had previously been bushed.
With yours however when you are replacing the whole set I would have thought it was still preferable to adjust the blocks rather than the head but a more knowledgeable person might say otherwise, and you would need to confirm free running cams after replacing all blocks.

If it was me I would measure the old blocks against the new and see what differences you come up with regarding measurements and if yours are past their best then replace or reuse.

For info here is my previous posting https://laverdaforum.com/xf/threads/95964/

Good luck

Steve
 
Hi all!
Thanks for your posts! I explained the problem to Wolfang and he said I should mill the blocks or the head, he told me he would send some photos but i haven’t yet.
Returning the blocks is not an option because i paid a lot in customs and shipping from Canada to Spain, so I would not worth it, I would preffer to resell them or keep them.

I am hesitant to modify my head because my blocks are not in bad condition.

My best choice would be the CNC blocks I guess but I haven’t source them yet.

And I will try to reach Maurice but with 12 hours time shift is difficult🤣🤦🏼‍♂️

Regards!
Miguel
 
I would mill the blocks, if it goes wrong you could buy others. If you mill the head, a new one is difficult to find and more expensive
 
That is for sure… i wont mill the head specially because my original blocks are still within limits. On the other hand if I don’t change them now, I will probably never do it.
The question is, are those RGS blocks somehow better than the 78’? Better aluminium? Otherwise is not worth the investment of milling them (I dont have a mill machinery at home, unfortunately)
Regards,
Miguel
 
The answer should be given by one of the specialists, Piet or Red or ?
I have not seen the difference exactly, the question would be will the modification change the position or will the position defined by other areas, the plane where the bolts are?🤷‍♂️
 
Schurminater said:
For what its worth and for some extra information on the subject,I had the same issue when I had to replace 2 of the cam blocks on my 180 Jota. I was able to purchase 2 original NOS blocks from the 120 degree engine as original items for the 180 were no longer available.
As with yours these had the larger locating step for better positioning but I was able to machine them (by hand) to match the originals and thereby fit my head.
It solved my original issue as 2 of mine had previously been bushed.
With yours however when you are replacing the whole set I would have thought it was still preferable to adjust the blocks rather than the head but a more knowledgeable person might say otherwise, and you would need to confirm free running cams after replacing all blocks.

If it was me I would measure the old blocks against the new and see what differences you come up with regarding measurements and if yours are past their best then replace or reuse.

For info here is my previous posting https://laverdaforum.com/xf/threads/95964/

Good luck

Steve
Click to expand...
Thanks! I read the old post, very helpful!
It looks I had already the second generation blocks that is why they were so similar to the NOS set from Wolfang. Only difference is the step that need to be milled in order to fit properly in the head slot.

So as my original ones are in good condition, I will either keep them or install the CNC if I can source them, in that case I would try to sell my set of new blocks in case somebody wants them. Is a full set of NOS blocks later type including center ones.

I don’t have a mill at home and I don’t want to pay to mill them if it is not a significant improvement in my head rebuild…🤷🏼‍♂️
 
I believe the RGS camshaft blocks were a better material than the early ones. I had a 1975 3C which had cam blocks that were in various stages of collapse when I bought the bike in 1995. I solved that problem with RGS blocks.
 
The first time I had work done on my 3c I got the bill and it was substantially more than quoted, the extra was for replacing my crumbling cam blocks with RGS blocks. The charming Oz Distributer, Eades, said nothing and just did it. It was a good idea but being asked was what should have happened, BTW it wasn't a small extra cost, but much more money than quoted back then.
 
michipons said:
Thanks! I read the old post, very helpful!
It looks I had already the second generation blocks that is why they were so similar to the NOS set from Wolfang. Only difference is the step that need to be milled in order to fit properly in the head slot.

So as my original ones are in good condition, I will either keep them or install the CNC if I can source them, in that case I would try to sell my set of new blocks in case somebody wants them. Is a full set of NOS blocks later type including center ones.

I don’t have a mill at home and I don’t want to pay to mill them if it is not a significant improvement in my head rebuild…🤷🏼‍♂️
Click to expand...
Hello Miguel,
you seem to have the older version of the head where the cam blocks will be positioned with dowels in the M8 stud holes. Do you have those available?

Good luck,
Jo
 
Jo said:
Hello Miguel,
you seem to have the older version of the head where the cam blocks will be positioned with dowels in the M8 stud holes. Do you have those available?

Good luck,
Jo
Click to expand...
Jo, that is incorrect, Miguel has the 2nd version of cam blocks that are located by the machined parallel section on the bottom of the cam blocks, his cam block version does not use the locating dowels

Miguel, you are correct that Wolfgang has supplied you with the incorrect cam blocks, they will never fit your current cylinder head without intervention by a Milling Machine by either machining the blocks (preferred choice) or milling the depth of the locating grooves in the cylinder head

I have not received an email from you about CNC cam blocks, did you send it to the correct email address bearing in mind we had to recently change our email address after something like 25 years because the DAM Squirrel's ran out of Acorns, FFS

Maybe too late to ask us anyway, looking at shutting up shop soon and fucking retire, had enough of working 7 days/week
Need to start spending more time with my girl, she has only been waiting for that to happen for the last 42 years

Good luck
Red
 
redax5 said:
Jo, that is incorrect, Miguel has the 2nd version of cam blocks that are located by the machined parallel section on the bottom of the cam blocks, his cam block version does not use the locating dowels
Click to expand...

OK, thanks for clarification Red (forwarding dubious advises is the last thing I wanted).

redax5 said:
Maybe too late to ask us anyway, looking at shutting up shop soon and fucking retire, had enough of working 7 days/week
Need to start spending more time with my girl, she has only been waiting for that to happen for the last 42 years

Good luck
Red
Click to expand...

You both should treat yourself to that as surely as anything, but going back from 7 to 0 may not be so easy either.
Maybe a 4-day week first?
:)

Methinks Laverda enthusiasts in OZ and the rest of the world are going to have to brace themselves for tough times.
:cry:

Cheers,
Jo
 
Last edited:
Thanks Red,

Yes I used the old address, I don’t have the new one.
But Maurice already told me you don’t have cnc blocks.
So as now I know that my actual blocks are second generation and they are in good condition, I will re-use them.
I will put the new ones in the neverland box.

I am sad to hear that! I just regret to have joined the Laverda community too late, because I would have liked to have the time to learn the tricky stuff.
But THANK YOU very much for all your help and parts you have provided the last years. I have 4 Laverdas running nicely and smoothly because of you!

Regards,
Miguel
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top