180 degree triple electrical woes
- Thread starter 19753C(E)
- Start date
Dellortoman
Hero member
- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
Fork sticker doesn't look at all familiar to me. Maybe it's something that the importer or dealer put on there.
19753C(E)
Full member
- Location
- Wisconsin, USA
Well, it used to be my Monty but I lost my job and had to sell it, along with the 750SS Formula and my beloved 1979 900SS Bevel drive Ducati. Sad days.
19753C(E)
Full member
- Location
- Wisconsin, USA
By the way I put a clearer picture of the decal I was asking about on my flickr page. I thought it might have been something from the Ricky Racer bunch in California. I never had a very good relationship with Lance Weil so never got around to asking.
The ignition switch is out of the bike. No dead squirrels or other obvious problems. I expected I'd have continuity across the contacts since power was going to the bike regardless of key position but no. Obviously I'm not adept at electronics testing. Will probably send it along to Wolfgang for analysis and possible replacement if he can find one.
The ignition switch is out of the bike. No dead squirrels or other obvious problems. I expected I'd have continuity across the contacts since power was going to the bike regardless of key position but no. Obviously I'm not adept at electronics testing. Will probably send it along to Wolfgang for analysis and possible replacement if he can find one.
T
Terry Dymond
Guest
That's about the most aesthetically pleasing Laverda I've seen. My idea of the perfect bike. Ogri would love it 
If the switch is testing OK then doubt the issue is with it, with it disconnected do you still have ignition feed ?
Might be time to pull the headlight and investigate the wiring in the shell.
Say out of interest what position is the headlight switch in ? Is it in the off position ?
With the switch connected and in the on position do you have power at the orange and white wires on the coils ?
Might be time to pull the headlight and investigate the wiring in the shell.
Say out of interest what position is the headlight switch in ? Is it in the off position ?
With the switch connected and in the on position do you have power at the orange and white wires on the coils ?
Gravelroad
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- Location
- Central Europe
Congrats to the nice bike, looks like the younger sibling to mine (bigthumb).
I'd rather put not any trust onto a 40yr old wiring loom. Contacts and cables corroded, connectors have mostly lost their springiness, topped up by nice cream of bodges added by the DPO's . Reading your troubles that seems exactly the actual state yours is in. Trying to cure it by localized fixes will see you constantly fighting electrical issues in the future, pleasing you with plenty of road side strandings..
Sorry mate, no offense intended, but if you out for a reliable drive, rip the old shit out and replace it completely.
It's neither rocket surgery nor brain science, just a bit of accurate work required to get everything electrics bullet proof. I had recently put up a wiring diagram for the 3C's with DMC ignition here, which greatly improves the original design. http://www.laverdaforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,95213.msg362360.html#msg362360
As already mentioned, get off the alternator cover and take a glimpse through the holes of the flywheel, to guess on the condition of the pickup wiring, it tends to fall to pieces with time.
I'd rather put not any trust onto a 40yr old wiring loom. Contacts and cables corroded, connectors have mostly lost their springiness, topped up by nice cream of bodges added by the DPO's . Reading your troubles that seems exactly the actual state yours is in. Trying to cure it by localized fixes will see you constantly fighting electrical issues in the future, pleasing you with plenty of road side strandings..
Sorry mate, no offense intended, but if you out for a reliable drive, rip the old shit out and replace it completely.
It's neither rocket surgery nor brain science, just a bit of accurate work required to get everything electrics bullet proof. I had recently put up a wiring diagram for the 3C's with DMC ignition here, which greatly improves the original design. http://www.laverdaforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,95213.msg362360.html#msg362360
As already mentioned, get off the alternator cover and take a glimpse through the holes of the flywheel, to guess on the condition of the pickup wiring, it tends to fall to pieces with time.
19753C(E)
Full member
- Location
- Wisconsin, USA
Took out the ignition switch. Is anyone besides me surprised that everything except the headlight and horn still work just fine? Still no spark of course. I still haven't had the time to do any serious troubleshooting to figure out exactly where I have power and where I don't. The longer I stare at the wiring diagram that cam sent out the more I start to think the engine stop relay could be an issue. I just need to figure out where it is.
The suggestion of a complete wiring loom replacement is undoubtedly the most prudent course but that does seem like brain surgery to an electrical-system moron like myself. I should be able to spend some time with the bike this week so I can start answering you guys' questions about "do you have power to....?"
Thanks for the help. We'll figure it out eventually...I hope.
The suggestion of a complete wiring loom replacement is undoubtedly the most prudent course but that does seem like brain surgery to an electrical-system moron like myself. I should be able to spend some time with the bike this week so I can start answering you guys' questions about "do you have power to....?"
Thanks for the help. We'll figure it out eventually...I hope.
pf1
Hero member
- Location
- Portsmouth UK
The relay will probably be on the back mudguard behind the toolbox unless it's been altered.
tom3c75
Hero member
- Location
- Cape Town South Africa
The relay on my 75 3C was of the tubular type, black, about 50mm long and 20mm wide, and was loosely attached to the end of the top frame tube. Dispensed with when I fitted the Sachse ignition I bought from Red.
Tom
Tom
dja982
Full member
- Location
- aberdeen scotland
If it has Witt ignition the stop relay will have been thrown away.
Gravelroad
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- Location
- Central Europe
As said, good chance the relay has been entirely omitted when the bike was converted to DMC ignition. The relay was intended to cut off the high voltage coil in the alternator, feeding the CDI ignition (on late CDI models the relay shorted the pickups to stop the engine). With the conversion from CDI to DMC, the CDI charge coil is replaced by a another coil for charging the battery, no need for the relay anymore, as the DMC is battery powered.
Most probably the DMC ignition is powered up by the orange-white wire coming from the kill switch, routed to the positive terminals of the two ignition coils, with the red cable from the DMC box wiring loom also connected to one of the positive terminals of the ignition coils. Check along this path wether there is any juice present with the ignition switch in on position.
Most probably the DMC ignition is powered up by the orange-white wire coming from the kill switch, routed to the positive terminals of the two ignition coils, with the red cable from the DMC box wiring loom also connected to one of the positive terminals of the ignition coils. Check along this path wether there is any juice present with the ignition switch in on position.
19753C(E)
Full member
- Location
- Wisconsin, USA
Ok, I?m back. I?ve been waiting for Wolfgang to send me a new ignition switch. In the end he cleaned up the old one, declared it fit for use and sent it back. I hope you're all still willing to try and help me out.
Where we stand with ignition switch re-installed:
1) Still no spark
2) Starter and brake lights still work regardless of ignition switch position. Lights, horn only work when ignition is on.
3) Regardless of ignition switch position I have power to and out of the ignition box (an older ?blue box? DMC unit), power to the coils, and power to all the wires leading to the ignition plate.
4) The two fuses are fine. I took them out and cleaned up the contacts. I need to replace them as they?re about to fall apart but I?m getting power across them.
5) I get a reading of around 6 volts on the yellow and yellow/black wires coming from the rectifier. Being an electronics moron I would have thought I?d need current from the alternator to have any reading at all.
6) I looked through the holes in the magneto cover and all the wiring looks fine.
7) I took the kill switch apart to make sure it wasn?t shorting somehow, likewise the light switch. Both are fine and functioning as they should.
8) I checked all the wires in the headlight. Everything?s tight, no sign of burned wires, broken insulation, etc.
9) Rob suggested testing the pickups in the alternator by testing for an AC voltage spike of around 5 volts when cranking the engine and that?s what I got ? 5 volts.
10) ?Gravelroad? suggested the following:
Most probably the DMC ignition is powered up by the orange-white wire coming from the kill switch, routed to the positive terminals of the two ignition coils, with the red cable from the DMC box wiring loom also connected to one of the positive terminals of the ignition coils. Check along this path whether there is any juice present with the ignition switch in on position. I did as suggested and there is power from the kill switch to the coils. The red wire to the box is also hot.
I?m starting to see the damn wiring diagram in my sleep.
Will you still give me $150 for the bike Cam?
Where we stand with ignition switch re-installed:
1) Still no spark
2) Starter and brake lights still work regardless of ignition switch position. Lights, horn only work when ignition is on.
3) Regardless of ignition switch position I have power to and out of the ignition box (an older ?blue box? DMC unit), power to the coils, and power to all the wires leading to the ignition plate.
4) The two fuses are fine. I took them out and cleaned up the contacts. I need to replace them as they?re about to fall apart but I?m getting power across them.
5) I get a reading of around 6 volts on the yellow and yellow/black wires coming from the rectifier. Being an electronics moron I would have thought I?d need current from the alternator to have any reading at all.
6) I looked through the holes in the magneto cover and all the wiring looks fine.
7) I took the kill switch apart to make sure it wasn?t shorting somehow, likewise the light switch. Both are fine and functioning as they should.
8) I checked all the wires in the headlight. Everything?s tight, no sign of burned wires, broken insulation, etc.
9) Rob suggested testing the pickups in the alternator by testing for an AC voltage spike of around 5 volts when cranking the engine and that?s what I got ? 5 volts.
10) ?Gravelroad? suggested the following:
Most probably the DMC ignition is powered up by the orange-white wire coming from the kill switch, routed to the positive terminals of the two ignition coils, with the red cable from the DMC box wiring loom also connected to one of the positive terminals of the ignition coils. Check along this path whether there is any juice present with the ignition switch in on position. I did as suggested and there is power from the kill switch to the coils. The red wire to the box is also hot.
I?m starting to see the damn wiring diagram in my sleep.
Will you still give me $150 for the bike Cam?
No input re missing green smoke but I did find some info re the sticker and why it looked familiar to me. I have a sticker on the 38mm Maz fork on my Pantah,not the standard 35mm that says Mazz,, but what tripped my memory is it's the same colour combination as your sticker. I did a search on the web for similar and found mine but nothing for yours. Still a mystery
Rob
Hero member
- Location
- Midlands, UK
Quick comments -
Think you're at the point where you need to separate out the circuits from each other to identify the component that's faulty. Troubleshooting with the whole lot connected is not easy!
What does 'power to all the wires leading to ignition plate mean'? What wires (colours?). Are you talking volts? How/where did you measure this? There shouldn't be any if the engine isn't turning. The pickups are passive and only generate a voltage when engine cranked.
Not such a moron! You're correct...again reading should be zero if alternator not turning.
OK - but testing with a meter is really the only way of being certain. Doubt that is the root cause of your stray voltages tho'
Think you're at the point where you need to separate out the circuits from each other to identify the component that's faulty. Troubleshooting with the whole lot connected is not easy!
mauricejota7604
Hero member
- Location
- Victoria Australia
Hi 19753CE you are going to have to become creative on this one if your ignition was fine you may have lost power to it?? If you have an aftermarket ignition unit establish which input is the 12V in power it up direct to the pos feed from the battery and find the earth input and feed a good earth onto the negative side crank her over and see if that gives you some life.
On the other weird problems sounds like you have live feed to circuits that is not switching through your ignition switch if your bike has two multi wire coupling blocks in the headlight you may find that these circuits that are live all the time are getting an artificial feed by mistake in those coupling blocks, that other circuit that is live should be running from the battery, fuse coupling block ignition switch then circuit. work your way along from the start and you will find the problem.
On the other weird problems sounds like you have live feed to circuits that is not switching through your ignition switch if your bike has two multi wire coupling blocks in the headlight you may find that these circuits that are live all the time are getting an artificial feed by mistake in those coupling blocks, that other circuit that is live should be running from the battery, fuse coupling block ignition switch then circuit. work your way along from the start and you will find the problem.
19753C(E)
Full member
- Location
- Wisconsin, USA
What's strange is pretty much every wire on this bike is giving me a reading of 12V all the time. Exceptions are the rectifier wires (yellow/black) and some of the wires associated with the headlight switch and kill switch. Voltage there varies with switch position. As you suggest I need to start trying to isolate different parts of the circuit somehow. Maurice - what is a fuse coupling box? Are you referring to the two fuses next to the battery?
It still seems like this should be something simple - if the bike was just sitting its not like someone started switching the wires around. I suppose a wire could have broken when I tried to start it. I see another weekend spent with multi-meter in hand on the horizon.
It still seems like this should be something simple - if the bike was just sitting its not like someone started switching the wires around. I suppose a wire could have broken when I tried to start it. I see another weekend spent with multi-meter in hand on the horizon.