180 silencer on a 120 bike
- Thread starter renetriple
- Start date
G
Grant
Guest
Grant,
Just as I was getting used to (though not attracted to) your strange, ugly mug avatar, you have morphed into something just as odd - there is a bit of a theme here!!!
My collector box is a standard SFC1000 item but has had extensions welded onto the outlet stubs - see photos (taken before plating and looking a bit crusty!). Though the collector is mild steel, these extensions are stainless according to the plater when the whole system was being rechromed. The Jota pipes were on the bike when I got it and the stubs go well up inside them, so not sure why they are like that?
Andy
Just as I was getting used to (though not attracted to) your strange, ugly mug avatar, you have morphed into something just as odd - there is a bit of a theme here!!!
My collector box is a standard SFC1000 item but has had extensions welded onto the outlet stubs - see photos (taken before plating and looking a bit crusty!). Though the collector is mild steel, these extensions are stainless according to the plater when the whole system was being rechromed. The Jota pipes were on the bike when I got it and the stubs go well up inside them, so not sure why they are like that?
Andy
Attachments
Laverdalothar
Hero member
- Location
- Germany
well - who knows what Silencers the DPO has used that made this extensions necessary. Maybe it was an attempt to increase torque by a slightly longer or adjusted length of the whole system - who knows. All I can say is that the difference between the Jota cans, the original system and a modified 3-2-1 I have (with different carbs I must admit...) is - depending on the setup - 15 - 20 HP. No Joke. So - the right or the wrong exhaust really makes a difference...
My 1000SFC, 40.000Km on the clocks, standard engine, DMC 2
-with a 3-1 system (37mm headers, 3-1 rewelded exhaust, 36mm Del'Orto: 92 HP, big drop in midrange (roughly 10 HP and 12 Nm)
-with original system (34mm headers, 3-1-2, big mufflers, 36mm Del'Orto: 93HP, still big drop in midrange but slightly less (5HP, 8Nm)
-version 1 exhaust (3-1) with Keihin 39mm: 94HP, drop in midrange almost the same
-Version 2 exhaust: very simlilar to the Dell'Ortos
Then I went for a special built 3-2-1 Exhaust from SR-Racing. Only change else than the exhaust was to drop the needle 2 notches (!!).
Result was 105 HP, 99Nm. We even had one run where it went up to 110HP and 103Nm, but due to a slightly lower torque curve, we changed back to a different muffler which then resulted in the 105HP (and also for the T?V registration, as they would not accept a power-increase of more than 15% without extensive testing of the brakes and suspension, which we wanted to avoid...)
All figures are CLUTCH figurs, tested on 2 different dynos.
Sound is now like a Porsche, still in a legal range but vveeeeery nice and rounded... Bike pulls like a train...
My 1000SFC, 40.000Km on the clocks, standard engine, DMC 2
-with a 3-1 system (37mm headers, 3-1 rewelded exhaust, 36mm Del'Orto: 92 HP, big drop in midrange (roughly 10 HP and 12 Nm)
-with original system (34mm headers, 3-1-2, big mufflers, 36mm Del'Orto: 93HP, still big drop in midrange but slightly less (5HP, 8Nm)
-version 1 exhaust (3-1) with Keihin 39mm: 94HP, drop in midrange almost the same
-Version 2 exhaust: very simlilar to the Dell'Ortos
Then I went for a special built 3-2-1 Exhaust from SR-Racing. Only change else than the exhaust was to drop the needle 2 notches (!!).
Result was 105 HP, 99Nm. We even had one run where it went up to 110HP and 103Nm, but due to a slightly lower torque curve, we changed back to a different muffler which then resulted in the 105HP (and also for the T?V registration, as they would not accept a power-increase of more than 15% without extensive testing of the brakes and suspension, which we wanted to avoid...)
All figures are CLUTCH figurs, tested on 2 different dynos.
Sound is now like a Porsche, still in a legal range but vveeeeery nice and rounded...
Bike pulls like a train...
J
jlo
Guest
I had the Jota silencers (upside down) on the SFC 1000 at the beginning, just after the optional Termignoni 3 into 1. Ok, the sound was nice but the result is not good in my opinion, stilla big drop in the mid range, motor was quite dull. Problem is that the nice sound gives you the feeling that the engine runs well but it is far to be the case. It was only when I fitted the whole SS system with the special venturi shape collector sold by Wolfgang that I got something correct. Putting the typical Jota big collector/small mufflers on a 120 engine simply doens't work IMHO.
Attachments
J
jlo
Guest
Andy Mac said:
Fit was perfect. Quality very good although the headers need some regular polishing otherwise they turn brown. Efficiency is real, night and day compared to the Termignoni even when the engine seems more linear as the mid range is improved. However it gains power everywhere, including at high revs (above 6000). Sound is really nice (a la Lambo or Porsche flat 6) although many could find it not loud enough. The kit included the center stand stop, in fact one bracket on each muffler and a central plate with a rubber. The headers are big bore (40 od), the collector has a sort of venturi inside, the mufflers have very big inputs. The kit is not cheap though...
I was wondering about the reliability of the side plates holding the mufflers to the footrest carriers, very thin, but they never caused any problem.
Attachments
G
Grant
Guest
That is exactly the system I have on POP.
40mm OD downpipes, venturi collector, stainless open pipes,all from Wolfgang.
Hope it works ok on a 180.
High quality piece of kit. Wolfgang commented that the stainless steel silencers are much thicker gauge than the Jota pipes and give a less ringing sound, more mellow. Plus there is an absorption type baffle in there.
And it has a Laverda silencer part number stamped on it!
40mm OD downpipes, venturi collector, stainless open pipes,all from Wolfgang.
Hope it works ok on a 180.
High quality piece of kit. Wolfgang commented that the stainless steel silencers are much thicker gauge than the Jota pipes and give a less ringing sound, more mellow. Plus there is an absorption type baffle in there.
And it has a Laverda silencer part number stamped on it!
Attachments
jlo and Grant,
Thanks for the observations - it is a tempting proposition, though the price sounds like it might scare me! I had my system rechromed 2 years ago and it has not got onto the bike yet. The chroming, including braze repais to hairline cracking on the collector and perforations on the ends of the seamless Jota silencers, cost ?550, which I ws prepared to pay because the I did not want a Keihan stainless system -can easily crack and does not sound like the mild steel system - too tinny for my liking.
I was not sure about Wolfgang's system, but your photo, jlo, shows that it actually looks really good on the SFC1000 - plus, you still have the rear pegs (I need them too), yet the silencers still kick up nicely - though not as much as yours Grant!
40 mm downpipes and what sounds overall, like a pretty free flowing system must have needed quite an increase in main jet size and perhaps needle position? Or maybe the baffles cancel out some of the back pressure loss?
I too do not like the way that stainless downpipes turn brown. The powdercoater I use also does ceramic coating and would coat the three pipes internally for ?150. After that, he advised that all you get is a very light straw colour change rather than the dirty looking brown. Tempting, but yet more money and polish is cheaper
!
Cheers, Andy
Thanks for the observations - it is a tempting proposition, though the price sounds like it might scare me! I had my system rechromed 2 years ago and it has not got onto the bike yet. The chroming, including braze repais to hairline cracking on the collector and perforations on the ends of the seamless Jota silencers, cost ?550, which I ws prepared to pay because the I did not want a Keihan stainless system -can easily crack and does not sound like the mild steel system - too tinny for my liking.
I was not sure about Wolfgang's system, but your photo, jlo, shows that it actually looks really good on the SFC1000 - plus, you still have the rear pegs (I need them too), yet the silencers still kick up nicely - though not as much as yours Grant!
40 mm downpipes and what sounds overall, like a pretty free flowing system must have needed quite an increase in main jet size and perhaps needle position? Or maybe the baffles cancel out some of the back pressure loss?
I too do not like the way that stainless downpipes turn brown. The powdercoater I use also does ceramic coating and would coat the three pipes internally for ?150. After that, he advised that all you get is a very light straw colour change rather than the dirty looking brown. Tempting, but yet more money and polish is cheaper
!Cheers, Andy
G
Grant
Guest
The degree of kick up is adjustable to an extent as the mounting plates are slotted. The footrest plates on a 120 are more limiting, and as I was custom making adaptors for the rubbers anyway I made them kick up at the angle I wanted.
I would be very tempted to internally ceramic coat downpipes if I were you. Will save a lot of grief and elbow grease in the long run.
If a job's worth doing...
I would be very tempted to internally ceramic coat downpipes if I were you. Will save a lot of grief and elbow grease in the long run.
If a job's worth doing...
J
jlo
Guest
Andy Mac said:40 mm downpipes and what sounds overall, like a pretty free flowing system must have needed quite an increase in main jet size and perhaps needle position? Or maybe the baffles cancel out some of the back pressure loss?
I too do not like the way that stainless downpipes turn brown. The powdercoater I use also does ceramic coating and would coat the three pipes internally for ?150. After that, he advised that all you get is a very light straw colour change rather than the dirty looking brown. Tempting, but yet more money and polish is cheaper
Cheers, Andy
I fitted the Mikuni RS36 at the same time as the new exhaust so I can't comment about the jet size. I was at 128 with the Dell'Ortos and the Termignoni, came to 117 or 120 with the RS36 I think, but it's difficult to compare.
I polished the headers once a year, just some seconds with Belgom alu and all was nice and shiny again, no big deal.
Attachments
G
Grant
Guest
JLO, stainless or chrome headers?
Mine are chromed.
I prefer the brighter colour.
Mine are chromed.
I prefer the brighter colour.
J
jlo
Guest
Grant said:
Stainless, I didn't know that they were available in chrome.
G
Grant
Guest
I asked Wolfgang and he said yes. Stainless is easier to shine up, but I don't like the straw yellow/brown colour the downpipes usually go in use.
In Spanish weather here I don't expect too much in the way of corrosion with chromed steel pipes.
In Spanish weather here I don't expect too much in the way of corrosion with chromed steel pipes.
Laverdalothar
Hero member
- Location
- Germany
there is a liquid available locally here called "Optiglanz", that you can spray on gold/brown stainless exhaust and - if they are the right quality - they will turn into silver right away. wash it with clear water afterwards, and they will stay silver longer.
main part of it is phosphoric acid, so be careful to use it. It really works, I used it on the headers of my Jota and it worked brilliantly. On the old 1000SFC 3-1 it was less good, but helped at least a bit. Seams it works better on unpolished items then on polished ones or it has to do with quality of steel - not sure.
main part of it is phosphoric acid, so be careful to use it. It really works, I used it on the headers of my Jota and it worked brilliantly. On the old 1000SFC 3-1 it was less good, but helped at least a bit. Seams it works better on unpolished items then on polished ones or it has to do with quality of steel - not sure.
Simonr501
Hero member
- Location
- Lympne, Kent. UK
What's wrong with golden straw coloured pipes?
Means it runs right doesn't it?
I think mine look lovely.
Means it runs right doesn't it?
I think mine look lovely.
Laverdalothar
Hero member
- Location
- Germany
SimonR501 said:
No, it does not in all cases. The color it develops depends not only on the heat but also on the steel quality. It can be perfectly gold and still be to hot, it can be red or blue already and still run rich. The color of the exhaust is NOT a 100% accurate indicator for the setup of the bike. My 1000SFC f.e. had red to blue headers at the top while it was consuming 11 L/100Km (roughly twice as much as it should be...). For sure it was NOT running lean...