1969 750 Timng Issues

AndyW said:
Just to add to the chorus: when I took delivery of my Mirage from the UK I found four broken teeth in the primary case :o :o ... just sayin'.

Like Terry said, bit of biff going on ................ any broken noses in there too?
 
Simon Yates said:
The green bible states on p72 that if the engine is in the frame you can engage 5th gear and press on the rear brake pedal to hold the crank.  Has anyone succeeded using this method.
Otherwise, if moving the 44-tooth oil pump will allow me to correct the timing this is what I shall do.

I've bent a couple of brake stays and levers that way.

Paul
 
To get back on topic :-X
Having set the points slots back to centre (by eye of course) I checked the timing and the figures are 20 degrees BTDC for the RH and 8 degrees for the LH side. 
Advancing the oil pump gear one tooth (equivalent to 16.4 degrees) should set them at 3.6 degrees BTDC (RH) and 8.4 degrees ATDC for the LH.  Both these figures are within the bounds of the slots and should allow me to set both at TDC.
I fitted the new throttle cables as well today so I know what I am doing tomorrow ::).
 
It was a good thing that I could not time the ignition.
I shall renew the primary chains and locknut tab washer but was surprised to find that the nut was loose and held in position by the tab washer. :o :o :o
 

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that's the tool Phil,
although I added a tube extension which goes to the floor, never had to do that as the leverage was able to get the nut undone when used in conjunction with a 3/4 drive socket set. The nuts look a good idea, but I am guessing that you welded them on a long time ago before you had got much experience in that discipline, not that they need to be strong, surely they can be made/copied by someone clever?
CLEM

ps your crankcases have been evacuated from deepest France and are now in my position.
 
Simon Yates said:
It was a good thing that I could not time the ignition.
I shall renew the primary chains and locknut tab washer but was surprised to find that the nut was loose and held in position by the tab washer. :o :o :o

There may be at least following reasons why did the nut was loose. A correct torque value is not mentioned at all on twin factory manual, but at least RGS manual states it should be 70-80 Nm, that is a low value. People have stated here that it must be 160 Nm for example, that is similar than many other engines have on similar constructions with threads of some similar size. I have also found a post-production tab washer that seemed to be far softer material than the originals or Phils tab washers. I can recommend the tab washers from Phil, those seemed to be very good ones (Thanks Phil, forgot to say this). This may be quite unnecessary, but I have thought to take hardness tests out from the tab washers, I may have an opportunity to do this without a money payment. One good thing can be also to turn the sprocket/crank (when tightening the nut) that way the rotational clearance is towards engine braking. Then the clearance will not turn to the other direction when you take more power out from the engine at the first time after reassembling. To lock the crank for 160 Nm may also be a harder thing than to lock it for 70-80 Nm, it should not be a problem at all with original or similar locking tool. Every kind of other locking methods have been used, all of these can not be recommended.

That tab washer looks on you picture if its corners were bent with screwdriver and mallet. Bits from it may crack and drop to the sump which may lead to other disasters before they get caugh in the separators.

I'm not sure if I'm "poking once a wasp nest" (not sure if this is also some sort of finglish) when I'm saying this one, but I'm quite unsure if there is some 100% correct "right or wrong" simple answer can the tab washer be used more than once or not. Also Laverda factory manuals doesn't actually say anything to it. At least same corner can not be used more than once.
A company that I think is half of the Finland's automotive industry have stated that tab washers of this very exact type can be used up to six times (every corner once) on every brands of road vehicles generally speaking, but of course this requires there is absolutely no any defects on it and if it is assembled and disassembled correct way every time, no matter if it is inside the sump or not. Of course it is safe if the washer is replaced every time. Just an interesting approach IMHO, I'm not making a recommendation.
 
I had used my original tab washer several times before I replaced it with one of Phil?s. The original one was very small and difficult to get much to fold over the nut whereas Phil?s one has plenty to work with. However the tab washer will not stop the nut loosening enough to allow movement in the sprocket, it will stop the nut falling out and damaging the outer cover. It is the friction between the sprocket and the inner face it bears against that stops movement, and that is why so much torque is required on the nut. Of course it is best to sit the splines against their drive sides but I think that if the sprocket can move at all under load it is eventually going to work itself loose over time with on/off throttle in everyday use. The sprocket itself is extremely hard and it seems to be that the LH crank end pays the price.
 
  I never understood why Laverda made the O.D of the washer smaller than the one used on the alternator side (S1) as the nuts are both 32mm , Did save getting two different punch and die sets for my press too!  material is just some ordinary steel sheet i got over 20 years ago - think i used it to "burglarproof" the front door at Motodd as well. - I concur- degrease and Loctite is a must-  Regards - Phil
 
phil37 said:
  I never understood why Laverda made the O.D of the washer smaller than the one used on the alternator side (S1) as the nuts are both 32mm , Did save getting two different punch and die sets for my press too!  material is just some ordinary steel sheet i got over 20 years ago - think i used it to "burglarproof" the front door at Motodd as well. - I concur- degrease and Loctite is a must-  Regards - Phil
Then I suggest to try some harder steel plate if the tooling tolerates. Some people have confirmed me there was not that loosening effect originally (at least with correct tightening methods). I don't know if some of you have different experiences.
 
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