1974SF2 points/timing

B

BrianSF2

New member
Location
Cedar Crest New Mexico
I have a 1974 SF2 that I just got. I got it started and it was obvious that it was way advanced. The points were pretty hammered so I sanded them and then tried to time it. The right side went fine. When I tried to time the left side points it still was to advanced. They are all the way and still not enough. I am not sure what would cause this, but maybe it has the wrong points. Does anyone have any ideas or have a number or the type and year of the VW that the points come off of. Thanks Brian
 
Check the gaps. They influence the timing, too.
Original Bosch Nr. is 1237 013 013
but no longer available.
This thread should get some recommendations
for replacements.

Ernesto
 
The points do not come from a VW... VW points can be adapted, though.

Very common scenario, 50-years-old points, used over and over and rarely replaced. You will probably find wear in the points themselves, as well as the fibre actuating block and in the pivot, perhaps on the cam and very probably in the advance/retard mechanism too. This all adds up so that adjustment can no longer even get them close to where they should be. I have also found bent axles, worn bob weights and incorrect springs in the A/R unit.

Ascertain what is needed and replace with new bits, good luck with that. Rare and expensive these days.

Easy option is to junk the whole caboodle and fit an aftermarket digital electronic system, not much more expensive than a complete points system, but fit-and-forget.

Many maintain that points have their advantages, personally, I cannot see any. ;) No doubt Paul M is going to shoot me down in flames...

piet
 
Bang. 🔫
On top of what the excellent Piet :) writes, don't refer to left or right points, they are totally apolitical and can fire left or right according to how they're wired. Much like my neighbours.
Refer to main or secondary points plate.
Always set main plate first of course.

As Ernesto points out, you can retard timing by closing up points gap.
Check the TDC (PM) mark before starting. They can be out.

Electronic ignition is a great mod if you don't intend riding the machine much and leave the battery on a trickle charger.

Paul
 
Also make sure the shaft for the advance mechanism is not bent. If the bike has ever crashed on the left side it can break the cover off and bend the shaft (personal experience). If not the case the advance is most likely worn out as just like the starter clutch, they never get lubed until they no longer work. Points from other German cars with Bosch ignition can be made to fit. The ones on my 750 if I remember correctly are from a 1960's Mercedes Benz. Using points from a VW seems to be more common?
 
Another common problem can be that a previous owner fitted the oil pump drive gears incorrectly, which affects where the points cam lobe is relative to the heel of the points - and therefore, rendering the slots in the points backing plates (two, as Paul mentions - main and secondary) insufficiently wide to allow correct timing.

With yours, the obvious starting place is replacing the points and servicing the advance mech. If you want a plug and play electronic system, contact Redax Engineering in Queensland Australia for his excellent Ignitech system for the SF. Red is a contributor (and administrator) on this forum.

DAM Laverda (also in Australia) is another good source who should have an SF Ignitech system.
 
piranha-bro2 said:
Another common problem can be that a previous owner fitted the oil pump drive gears incorrectly, which affects where the points cam lobe is relative to the heel of the points - and therefore, rendering the slots in the points backing plates (two, as Paul mentions - main and secondary) insufficiently wide to allow correct timing.

With yours, the obvious starting place is replacing the points and servicing the advance mech. If you want a plug and play electronic system, contact Redax Engineering in Queensland Australia for his excellent Ignitech system for the SF. Red is a contributor (and administrator) on this forum.

DAM Laverda (also in Australia) is another good source who should have an SF Ignitech system.
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You say "replacing the points". Does anybody know where to start with finding the correct points or what make and year of VW or Mercedes to obtain. I went to a local auto parts store and we looked at a number of german points and didn't find what I needed. I did check the advance and it seems to be OK. The bike has about 20000 miles and has been in storage for at least 20, maybe 30 years. I have it running, but the adjustable side, left, is still some what advanced. Again any help or suggestions would be welcome. I have a V-7 sport that I have had for 40 years and I am looking forward to riding the SF. Cheers Brian
 
Just get a VW Echiln VW Beetle point kit: however, there's a rub - Either you drill out the Breganzie points plate pole or drill through the peg of the VW points - It's up to you - I elected to drill through the to the points and keep the original breganzie points plate standard. Doubt you you will ever find origianal points for a 750 Breganzie.

Don't heed enthusiasts that say point are useless: I had no problem hitting 8000rpm with points on a 70 Breganzie 750 SFO twin .

And if your ignition fails; you can FIX a points ignition on the side of the road with a screw driver and sand paper compared to an Electronic Ignition that will cost you towing plus and electronic module !
 
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Get half way home from work yesterday, SF2 starts to run on one cylinder, bugger. Pull over, take the points cover off, one point is covered in oil. Ok, seal might be leaking. Wipe it clean, start up, all good, got home on 2 cylinders. Pull it apart at home, seal and back of the points plate is dry as. Looks like operator error, I did put a drop of oil on the cam, maybe too much☺️. Got to say I'm loving riding the twin , can't wait to get it out in the country side again.
 
Laverda SF said:
Just get a VW Echiln VW Beetle point kit: however, there's a rub - Either you drill out the Breganzie points plate pole or drill through the peg of the VW points - It's up to you - I elected to drill through the to the points and keep the original breganzie points plate standard. Doubt you you will ever find origianl points for a 750 Breganzie.

Don't heed enthusiasts that say point are useless: I had no problem hitting 8000rpm with points on a 70 Breganzie 750 SFO twin .

And if your ignition fails; you can FIX a points ignition on the side of the road with a screw driver and sand paper compared to an Electronic Ignition that will cost you towing plus and electronic module !
Click to expand...
Thanks for the information. I think I will get the VW beetle points and drill them. What are the years for the points or are all the early ones the same? Cheers
 
VW Beetle points are all the same. Porsche used Echlin Blue Streak points ;o)

Drill a 1/8" hole in the bottom of your Distributor Cap cover to drain moisture from the points plus use a 3M Amphoric 1107 ? engine casing seal on the distrubutor cap to keep water out when washing your ride. Do everything to keep that distributor cavity DRY whether it be points or electronic !
 
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Run a bead of 3M 1107 ? Amphoric Engine case sealant on either the engine casing or the distributor cap and let it dry - You can only remove it with a razor blade. I beaded the distributor cap with that 3M product and drilled 1/8th" in the bottom of the Distributor cap and used a slightly modified Echlin Blue Streak Beetle Points - Ran over 5 years with very little maintenance with no point contact wear ;o)

PS: I suggest for a long haul keep a condenser and spare set of points in your tool kit incase of disaster - I've never had to use it .

I say F*^K an electronic ignition for the Breganzie SF as it will eventually leave you dead on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere - Points don't do that and good luck getting your SF to idle properly with an electronic ignition.

I told you Guy's I only speak up when it come to Breganzie Twins, I let the 3 Cly Guys alone and if you don't believe a 750SF can't do over 120 mph (194 K/Hr) down about any straight (providing you keep the monument and revs) with points hitting over 7500 rpm in 5th with open mouth VHB 30A's - You are mistaken ;o)

Not saying it takes practice and guts to it and design the ride to fit your style of riding - Mine was Cafe riding a highly tuned 70 SFO for like 400 miles in the night through the winding asphalt of the Canadian Cambrian Shield - Quite the rush - Top heavy, would sooner fall over when you looked at her yet a killer in a race. Most riders refused to mount her mainly because she was fast enough to kill you ;o)

I had a 45 year relationship with that Breganzie - Love her or hate her - It's your decision.

At 73 I quit riding, not that I did not own Super Bikes like the Suzuki 1100 GXSR in my time but the last bike I kept and eventually sold was my 70 Breganzie SFO - The only ride I bought new and kept to the end ;o(

A screw driver, 400 grit sand paper and a feeler gauge takes a minute or 2 to check if your points are set and not pitting.
 
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An old Laverda Breganzie SF Twin is very capable of hitting 120+ nearing 8000 rpm down any straight in 5th if you coulis her and maintain your cafe geometry - Takes Practice !

I've weened of it at 73 - Too dangerous at my age !
 
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