3CL won't maintain idle until fully warmed up

That's a great post Jugs, thanks for taking the time to put that together.
That's exactly what I was asking. I also re-read Liam's fastbike notes and with the help of your info I have a better understanding of what he was saying about the Ignitech using the sensor lobe edges to calculate timing parameters.
I'll set this up and give you some feedback when I have it.
Thanks again.
 
if setting up a timing wheel use the dead stop on No 2 cylinder and set the wheel at 180 degrees for a 180 degree engine, No 2 cylinder by default controls the cam timing because of how the crank is constructed
No 1 and No 3 crank webs just hang off the end and timing wise could be anywhere but once you have the wheel set on No 2 is then easy to check crank phase is still correct
 
redax5 said:
if setting up a timing wheel use the dead stop on No 2 cylinder and set the wheel at 180 degrees for a 180 degree engine, No 2 cylinder by default controls the cam timing because of how the crank is constructed
No 1 and No 3 crank webs just hang off the end and timing wise could be anywhere but once you have the wheel set on No 2 is then easy to check crank phase is still correct
Click to expand...
If you find them out but not enough to send crank to Red next to base advance is a " Correction for Cylinder" setting as well
 
I went to FastBikeGear and got a copy of their Extended Ignitech manual for the TYCPI-4 .. looks like A$13 very well spent - thanks for the tip! I've scoured the Ignitech setup manual but the fast gear one is much easier to understand (having English as first lingo helps) and goes into greater depth. I also discovered they're offering a free suspension setup guide ATM. What's not to like!
 
Chuck3CL said:
With your 3deg base and 10deg advance at 500 rpm do you have a smooth idle without throttle when cold?
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Not when cold. It's got Mikunis on it that seem to need a bit more warming up than the old Dells. I start the bike with the choke, take off, then switch off the choke about a little way down the road. I sometimes leave it on a little longer on a cold day if coughs and splutters when trying to accelerate. Once the engine is warm it's all good. Cold idle was better with the Dellortos, so I presume the Dells have a richer mixture at idle. Idle speed when warm is around 1000rpm. Well above the 500rpm where the advance curve starts. 10° advance at idle seems about right. Not that it spends a lot of time idling. I'm in Marty's camp on that issue. It really only idles whjen sitting at traffic lights.

BTW, I've measured the cranking speed on the starter motor at anywhere between 200-400rpm, depending on battery condition, engine temp, etc. That's why I chose 500 as a starting point for the advance curve, to make sure it first fires while still on the base advance.
 
Thanks for the tip Red. I checked the crank phase from #2, all good.
And good news on the idle Jugs. Following your suggestion I reset the base position sensor advance so that for idle anywhere from 0 to 1500 rpm the Ignitech holds a consistent timing value. I set ita bit too high today, so tomorrow I'll work on it to set about 6 deg base advance.
Looks good though, idling solid on cold start now.
 
Dellortoman said:
Not when cold. It's got Mikunis on it that seem to need a bit more warming up than the old Dells. I start the bike with the choke, take off, then switch off the choke about a little way down the road. I sometimes leave it on a little longer on a cold day if coughs and splutters when trying to accelerate. Once the engine is warm it's all good.
Click to expand...
It's a funny thing that .. I've found the same, almost like the carbs. need warming, not just the engine.
I guess it's jetting though and the mikuni's have a finer range & adjustment.
 
redax5 said:
if setting up a timing wheel use the dead stop on No 2 cylinder and set the wheel at 180 degrees for a 180 degree engine, No 2 cylinder by default controls the cam timing because of how the crank is constructed
No 1 and No 3 crank webs just hang off the end and timing wise could be anywhere but once you have the wheel set on No 2 is then easy to check crank phase is still correct
Click to expand...
Hi Red, can I just confirm these steps with you?.......Use dead stop on No:2 turning either way to get degrees before and after marks the centre of which will then be TDC of No2,.........then turning 180 degrees will give you true TDC on No1?

Cheers

Steve
 
Schurminater said:
Hi Red, can I just confirm these steps with you?.......Use dead stop on No:2 turning either way to get degrees before and after marks the centre of which will then be TDC of No2,.........then turning 180 degrees will give you true TDC on No1?

Cheers

Steve
Click to expand...
yes, in a way, set TDC @ 180 degrees on the wheel using the dead stop on No 2 cylinder and then when set up use the dead stop again on No 1 and No 3 cylinders and you can check if they are still in phase, they both should read 0 degrees +/- 15 mins or so
 
Steve
Yep Red is staying to find TDC on Number 2 then once you know exactly where it is you then make a mark ( using a degree wheel to be accurate of course ) exactly 180 Degree opposite, if all is good then it will be where the original mark was.. but if your crank is slightly twisted.. ( aka not built by Red ) then by doing as he has said you then get the true TDC of the engine.. fairly straightforward to be honest if you think about it for a second or 2..
 
Good news feedback....Idling and low rpm running sorted, fires off the button, 10 seconds or less of half choke and then it just purrs!
Smooth running through from low rpm to w.o.t.
Mostly just re-worked the Ignitech base advance as per Jugs suggestion.
Thanks to Jugs for the help, and Red as always!
 
Laverdalothar said:
Chuck, one thing more to check, please: You said the carbs are balanced - have you balanced the choke sliders, too? I had several bikes going through some setup by me that came with totally different settings for the choke sliders, which causes one cylinder to go richer than the other and caused some bikes even to stall after some seconds of running.
Click to expand...
This old posting from Laverdalothar proves you are never too old to learn, came across it whilst researching "plug fouling" which still catches me out now again even with a relatively new plug set.
Did so again on the my first ride out yesterday, started straight up but only on 2,new plug fitted and off we go and with no issues.

I have always maintained cable slack to the recommended tolerances and with carbs balanced and slides synched but never thought to synch the choke sliders, only checking condition and smooth operation .......but this morning I checked mine and they were out, not by a million miles but 2 of them certainly needed adjustment. I will now be adding this to my check list for future tune-ups.

It will be interesting to see if it makes a difference with my plugs.

So thank you Laverdalothar........every days a school day (y)🙂

Steve
 
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