Adding Slick 50 to fork oil

  • Thread starter Thread starter Reggie3cl
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PTFE is teflon powder, made by Dupont and they reckon it is not useful as an oil additive. The only reason it is in Slick 50 and others is due to the foibles of the American legal system and Dupont being sued to force them to sell the product despite their concerns - probably of being sued if things went to shit.

Every scientific research I have read on the product has shown it to do more harm in engines than good, actually accumulating in low pressure areas such as oil passageways and crankcase surfaces but not in areas of high pressure and wear and that the teflon particles which are solids in suspension get caught by oil filters and the hotter the oil gets the more they obstruct the filter, but what the fuck would scientists know.

Oh, but I do add a MoS2 product to the gearbox on the Le Mans.
 
Theoretical vs actual.
If that was the case then there would be many disgruntled owners and many lawsuits,  no?
FWIW I used it in the engine oil in my Jota in the 80s, didn't actually see much difference either way, just saw it as belt and braces.
 
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/1996/07/quaker-state-ads-slick-50-are-false-and-misleading-ftc-charges

http://www.xcelplus.com.au/docs/false_ad.htm

Just a couple.

And http://www.nasachem.com/techgenesis/competit.htm
 
Davo, that is all 20 years old. I have 20 years of experiance with it and what it at least offers On Laverda engines is an improved shifting On all bikes. On some, the average and maximum oil Temperatur went down by minimum 10 *C. No effect? Mmmmhh...
 
Seems like a slippery slope from either side of the fence you sit on this one I reckon.

I know a few who have sworn  by it for years from Dak Dak owners to Ferrari nuts  .. Never heard any of them winge about anything untowards and some are real tight arses what they do with the coin but never seem to flinch when its time to pour some more slick 50 into their engines.


 
Laverdalothar said:
Davo, that is all 20 years old. I have 20 years of experiance with it and what it at least offers On Laverda engines is an improved shifting On all bikes. On some, the average and maximum oil Temperatur went down by minimum 10 *C. No effect? Mmmmhh...
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Similar to the current Nurofen court cases here. Totally false marketing, taken to court, fined big bucks, just change the marketing and promises slightly and on you go making millions without ever having to prove the veracity of your claims.

And Lothar, I have patients who swear by their copper wrist bands that they have worn for their arthritis for the last 20 years. And even motre these days who swear by the curative properties of x, y, or z. And don't get me even started on the cancer cures that are out there that somehow mainstream medicine keep ignoring despite the remarkable number of cures.

I am trained for scientific approach, and if reputed scientists are willing to do the testing of a product and put their reputations on the line to say something is not what it is reputed to be I will go with them rather than personal experience.
 
This comes up on the forum about every 5 years. I came close to trying it last time. Till I did some googling and found more legal info about who invented what and sued who that tech info.
 
stevepm2011 said:
My O360 in the Piper has lasted 2500 hours running on standard 15w50.
It still has good compression and delivers the required revs at take off.
Drinks a liter of the stuff every 5 hours or so, standard for a Lycoming.
I wouldn't bother with an additive now, save the money towards the new engine... :D
Would love to replace it with a diesel, (much better performance at altitudes over 5000') but the conversion is too expensive.

Steve
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Steve, we had an O-320 in one of our flight school 172's that we pulled at 3200 hours, bossman was worried about the amount of time on it and so we tore it down. Everything was within wear limit tolerance, a testament to oil changes every 25 hours, and oil and filter every 50. When AvBlend came out we started adding it to engines after a 100 hours of break in time, performance increased, wear decreased, all for an additional $7 a pint (oil was only $2.65 qt). Later on Lycoming called for Cam Guard, another "snake oil" on certain engines, but recombined it on all their engines. I figured they were making money one pint at a time  :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:.

As for the original thread, I have never tried an additive in the forks, not sure the benefits outweigh the costs but it would be nice to know.

Clay
 
Interesting you mention Lycoming. Avco Lycoming, a major manufacturer of aircraft engines, states, "We have tried every additive we could find on the market, and they are all worthless."

http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/AUTO/F_Slick_502.html
 
Davo, the product does not help much in Engines that are already friction optimized (modern Engines), but it does on those which were not. Maybe it wasn't Smart to advertise with general claims, agreed. there have been tests by motorbike magazines though that proofed at least some effect...


However, anyone I know that used it in Laverda Engines at least recognized an improved shifting (Even on a 668 Zane where we used SX6000). On my Jota it did have such a massive impact- it would proof all marketing claims right - and much more. I have no connection to Slick50 or SX6000, all I can say is that on all my bikes and the Gearbox of my Porsche 944 it works very well. I assume though it has more effect on the gearbox than On the engine itself.

Use it or not - your decission.  ;)
 
I guess you know what my decision is Lothar. If it was such a fantastic boost over and above "conventional" lubricants then I guess oil companies would have been adding teflon powder to their product years ago, eh?
 
Hahahaha.... That way they would agree that PTFE is better than all their secret additives they want to differentiate with on the market.... And PTFE is only produced and sold by DuPont. NO freakin way they would ever do that...

My Former neighbour does gearbox construction for Ford in Germany. I asked him if they considered PTFE or similar coating in gearboxes. He said that they did several tests with it and found it to decrease noise and temperature and improved shifting forces. They don't use it however, as it only lasted for between 50.000 and 80.000 km and what ever they do needs at least to last for300.000 - 400.000km. He said also to comply with emission rules in the next years/decade, there is no way around optimizing friction in the gearbox.
 
Laverdalothar said:
My Former neighbour does gearbox construction for Ford in Germany. I asked him if they considered PTFE or similar coating in gearboxes. He said that they did several tests with it and found it to decrease noise and temperature and improved shifting forces. They don't use it however, as it only lasted for between 50.000 and 80.000 km and what ever they do needs at least to last for300.000 - 400.000km. He said also to comply with emission rules in the next years/decade, there is no way around optimizing friction in the gearbox.
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Shh we shouldnt really be talking about Ford and gearbox's at the moment after the debacle with their double clutch units here.

Interesting and surprised Ford didn't just make gear oil change part of the scheduled 60K service and have a "special part number " for the oil they use.  ( guess like all manufacturers they were worried that the non franchised guys start servicing, not using the "correct oil " and then coming back to bite them ) its a bloody mine field out there now for OEM's.

You would surprised if you really new what some automotive companies are using to solve issues out in the field. ..in way of additives and who the suppliers actually are though rebadged with the OEM label.




 
Davo said:
Interesting you mention Lycoming. Avco Lycoming, a major manufacturer of aircraft engines, states, "We have tried every additive we could find on the market, and they are all worthless."

http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/AUTO/F_Slick_502.html
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Dave, 1992 report and no mention of which engineering office put out that statement. That one looks like snake oil itself  8)

Here is one of Lycoming's Service Instruction for oil additives: http://www.lycoming.com/Portals/0/techpublications/serviceinstructions/SI%201409C%20(02-20-2009)/Lycoming%20Engine%20PN%20LW-16702,%20Oil%20Additive.pdf

If CamGuard and AvBlend did not work as described not only would the lawsuits be insurmountable the FAA would never have approved them (FAA testing requirements is one reason aviation cost so much to be involved in and why experimental aircraft popularity has soared).

As for Slick 50, I haven't used it. As for AvBlend (Zmax) I have used it with good results. And one of the most important things to a pilot is that giant windmill out front and if the additive gives me 15 minutes more of flight after catastrophic engine failure where shit is flying apart and oil is all but a mess on the belly it's worth the extra $$$$. Would I use it in a wet clutch motorcycle, hell no. My BMW's, hell yes. Just like LE grease and lubricants, some shit gets proven through the school of hard knocks and others are through years of engineering tests.

Clay
 
'71 SF said:
And one of the most important things to a pilot is that giant windmill out front and if the additive gives me 15 minutes more of flight after catastrophic engine failure where shit is flying apart and oil is all but a mess on the belly it's worth the extra $$$$.
Clay
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Hope you never have to find out if it works. Hope I am not sitting beside you when you have to find out  :o
 
I used a similar product, Nulon, in my 81 Jota. The smoothest gear changes it ever had. Sweet, in fact. I poured it in every oil change, leading up to the oil change I could feel it slowly backsliding to its old ways. That's when I new it was time to change the oil, and slip in a new batch of slippery stuff.

Batto has had that engine apart, any nastiness (caused by the slippery stuff) in there Steve?
 
Chris, MoS2 and PTFE are considered extreme pressure lubricants and as such should be excellent in a gear box. It is the rest of the engine that is of concern.

BTW I found the FTC judgement against Quaker et al. Is not in the too dim distant past

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/1997/07/quaker-state-subsidiaries-settle-ftc-charges-against-slick-50
 
Davo said:
Hope you never have to find out if it works. Hope I am not sitting beside you when you have to find out  :o
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Thank you brother Dave, I hope not too! My one off field landing in a bean field was enough to convince me I didn't want to have a real emergency  :o :o :o
 
Decided to just buy the bestest slipperiest synthetic stuff I could find, and have gone down to 7.5W to hopefully give a less jarring action.
 
Shiney, Shiney. :)
http://www.reactivesuspension.com/service-detail.php?product_id=55

Also available stealth option.
http://www.reactivesuspension.com/service-detail.php?product_id=57
 
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