Adjustable ECU for Zanes

V

Vince

Hero member
Has anyone fitted one of Cliff Jeffreys ECU to a late model 750 Zane. One of the Sydney blokes has an interest and as both the bike and the ECU bloke are in Sydney it seems like a good idea. Would it improve the bikes midrange and make it less peaky while improving all-round engine performance? Any comments, Lothar especially.
https://www.myecu.biz/MyECU/index.htm
 
Having injected a breganze Laverda, I would say avoid anything with limited support.  On one hand having the guy who designed the ECU help you is great, but limits you in the long term to a single source for all hardware/support.  It can be a lot of work to get them running right and if the unit goes pop and the one guy has gone under a bus or simply lost interest you'll have to start from scratch again.
I would suggest a microsquirt since there is a huge user base and lots of people to ask questions of.  At the time I did mine the MS was long-delayed vapourware and only had 2 ignition/fuel channels which made it less than ideal for a 120 Lav but is fine for a Zane (allows full sequential and non-wasted spark should you desire).  It came out about 12 months after I had done mine and is apparently pretty good.  The hard part with a bike engine with so little inertia is to get the smooth throttle response, some of that is hardware setup and some of it how sophisticated the ECU is and how well the person tuning it knows the software.  Mine was quite harsh in the first iteration and took a while to smooth out but ended up quite nice, however I used quite a different ECU.
 
There is lots of reasons to think of a different ecu than the WM16M. One being the (intended) bad running between 2.700 and 3.000, which all WM16M have (also Guzzi, Ducati etc. that used it). Many Guzzi and Ducati riders use the My16M. Together with the Optimizer, you can basically program the thing on the road. It even has two modi, closed and open loop. In one (open loop I think?!?) it shall self-optimize the map.

I haven't digged deep enough into it to say it works or not, as a local Laverda friend has set it up and made it at least starting and running below 2.000. He had no time anymore and lost interest to get it completed, so I ended up with a half programmed map...

Can't find any local support for it and my knowledge of such systems is so damned limited that I am simply not able to continue. I would say 60% of the work is done (if not more), but never managed to find someone that could provide a good starting map for Laverdas.

If there is one, i would be open to start the project again. a lot of room for improvement I would say still layes in the ecu. a company in Germany installed a power commander and found additional 12 HP and lots of torque, so there must be ways to make this worthwile. would take someone local to Cliff that speaks better english than me (not that tough) and has decend knowledge about setting these things up.

The big advantage of that system is that it is basically plug and play in terms of hardware installation, as it is mounted in WM16M housing.

I also talked to Uwe Witt if he wouldn't be interested to set something up. He would (even with a "plug-and-play" installation, too, but he would need decend numbers of potential units to be sold to even produce a prototype. Not sure we'll find enough willing to invest something like 700? for a box...
 
I've been looking at pulling the data from a 16m on my zanes and an st4,  and putting it into a 59m or a 5am, but then I am led to believe a 15m?? 15aw.?? Would be a better choice. So far I haven't found the plugs and sockets I need to make the adaptor lead, and I'm a bit screwed for time for a while to forward this project.
 
Got a reply from Cosi on the Zane list saying there might be a better chip he could use, first we need to see what he has in the bike now.
 
Guys, no chip in the world will remove the issue around 3.000RPM, as this is programmed not in the chip but in the ecu (WM16M or P8). it is a feature of the box to avoid issues with noise emission rules. When ever the revs go to 2.700 and you pull throttle wide open, ignition timing goes back and forth until you reach 3.000. with standard gearing, 2.700 is when you ride 50 in 3rd gear. European emission rules testing involves driving the bike at 50, pulling throttle wide open when you reach 50 and the next 25 Meters, the noise is measured. As the bike almost stalls and does not want to accelerate, noise is controlled and no issue apears - even with loud exhausts - and the bike passes the test.

It is the same on all bikes using these Weber Marelli ECU's. the only way to get rid of this is to change the ECU.

I have also a different chip in my Formula. It is better than original, but the issue is the same around 2.700 and 3.000 revs.
 
Has anyone tried adapting some stuff from a Japanese bike with EFI? There are loads these days - twin cylinders by the dozen.

That ECU trick sounds about as corrupt as VWs emissions scam!!
 
If your riding a zane at 27-3k  rpm then you shouldn?t have one, I havent ridden any laverda that likes that range, or I could be just me....
 
Piranha Brother 2 said:
That ECU trick sounds about as corrupt as VWs emissions scam!!
Click to expand...


Before blaming manufacturers, maybe, it's worth pausing to compare how each of us rode, before, and after, our 'Driving Test', and compare that to how we rode during the Test.

"He who is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone"
 
Cosi said:
If your riding a zane at 27-3k  rpm then you shouldn?t have one, I havent ridden any laverda that likes that range, or I could be just me....
Click to expand...

Well - if you set up a Breganze correctly and use a modern ignition, it doesn't have an issue with that RPM (assuming you mean 2.7 - 3k, not 27-3=24k... I haven't ridden ANY vehicle that produces 24.000RPM...  :D ).

It is a fact that the WM16M (at least) switches ignition at that rev-range, Markus Geist has tested it with an Osciloscope... The only reason i can imagine is that it helps to get through the test...
 
Piranha Brother 2 said:
Has anyone tried adapting some stuff from a Japanese bike with EFI? There are loads these days - twin cylinders by the dozen.
Click to expand...

Ask yourself this... would you fit a set of carbs from some completely different bike if you couldn't change the jets?

If you want to tweak and tune, the ECU needs to be fully programmable.
 
breganzane said:
Ask yourself this... would you fit a set of carbs from some completely different bike if you couldn't change the jets?

If you want to tweak and tune, the ECU needs to be fully programmable.
Click to expand...

Was assuming there must be programmable ECUs for other bikes already out there. What to superbike and other classes of racer do these days?
 
Piranha Brother 2 said:
Was assuming there must be programmable ECUs for other bikes already out there. What to superbike and other classes of racer do these days?
Click to expand...

A programmable ECU doesn't care what kind of engine it is attached to.  Telling it how many cylinders there are and the firing sequence thereof is a trivial part of the setup.  Think Ignitech - you can have one Ignitech box run ignition on any Laverda from a miniscooter through to an RGS. 

Most serious race classes probably use either Magnetti Marelli or Motec, but I doubt the complexity of those is warranted on a Zane (not to mention being more expensive than the bike).  If I owned a Zane I would start with a Microsquirt and only go for something more sophisticated if it was found wanting.  $360USD and a day or two wiring up the harness and you'd be off to the dyno.

Here:
https://www.diyautotune.com/product/microsquirt-engine-management-system-w-30-wiring-harness/
 
I fully agree to what Steve said, the unit needs to be fully programmable. And without any intentional secret "cheats" to pass emission-tests... I also thought about bringing the Zane to Ignitech and let them adopt something. However, I thought that Cliff's My16 isn't really a bad thing, as it leaves the original harness original and you simply exchange the box against one from eBay filled with his components. The good thing on his setup is, that once the bike runs and you are using the optimiser, it should self-adjust to the optimal AFR. All it needs for that is the My16M, the Lambda sensor installed in the downpipes (some welding needed...) and the Optimizer as well as some time riding the bike. At least that is what he told me...  :D
 
Ecus rely on sensor data, the Zane has 9 or so that are very basic by  today?s standards, built to a price and they work in my opinion, apart from blowing up any random time,the micro squirt is the ignitech of programmable ecus, if you have the time money and access to unlimited Dyno sessions you can achieve anything, with a bit of mechanical engineering, refer to the alto race bikes, go on google it, they won but look at whet they did to them, Ben is a very talented man
 
I haven't ridden the bike but I think Sasha has and from what I hear it lacks midrange, his brother the owner is keen to do next years Snowy Ride on it. I expect you could keep it on the boil and there are roads that would suit that in that region. I doubt he would be happy not running it hard, most of his bikes are pretty crazy engine wise. This year he rode some limited edition MV triple that has Adventure Bike style, sex on wheels type thing with limited performance under 5k. Its been interesting seeing what's available to attempt to fix this. I was hoping it would be fit and dino and done.
 
Good timing of this thread. I?ve been considering these for the SFCK880.
https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/efimotorcycle.htm

It?s like a black art to me, but my dyno guy plays with this stuff on a regular basis.
 
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