Advice, please. Which way up?

saving 200 USD (between YSS and Chinese product or ikon and Chinese product) on a bike that is well worth beyond 5.000USD is something I don't get.

I like experimenting with new things (that is why I was one of the first in Germany to use the YSS), but only with products coming from a trustable source. Life is to short to risk it for 200 USD saving in my eyes.

Maybe they last, maybe they don't. Are they made really for heavy duty bikes like ours or more for scooters?
 
I have a pair of Racetechs on a Jota and YSS on a 1200TS.  I have issue with (a) the blatant copyright infringement of the Chinese, and (b) the dubious quality.  Maybe its a bit of snobbery but I'd rather have a brand that has some credibility.  Likewise I'd rather not feed the plagiarism too, which will lead to good companies struggling because their products are competing with something produced with potenitally some dubious labour practices.
 
Good job Honda didn?t say that 750 Laverda looks very much like our little twin or those Benelli fours look like our fours, can only imagine how much the Japanese poured into development. I can remember when people used to say ?Japanese rubbish? , not a phrase you hear so much but people All moaned about the Japanese copying and bettering existing designs. I look at each product on its own merits , some good, some bad but so much is being farmed out to China by the big names you don?t know what was made where these days.
 
Just yesterday I bought some 3 phase electrical plugs. On opening the boxes, I had a d?j? view moment... I thought I had seen these plugs before. I opened up a cabinet and pulled out a plug that I bought 12 years ago. Side by side examination proved I was right....... old plug (which was superseded by a self locking type, rather than screw together type) and new plug were identical, down to the mould marks.

Old type, Australian manufactured, new type made in Vietnam under a new brand.

My take on this: The old mounds were saved from the shredder/scrap yard and sent to Vietnam by someone, and used to make a cheaper, yet outdated alternative.

$1:00 worth of plastic at a retail price of $92.00 would be attractive to me too.

Ironically, the plug was being put onto a dumbed down budget priced Italian machine, built to ....... compete with Asian manufacturers ::)
 
Using a design concept and replicating an exact design aren't the same thing - I agree with NG. I guess copyright comes into it - if you can afford the money to pursue it.

Specialized bicycles have to deal with a Chinese exact replica (decals and all) of their top of the line McClaren Venge carbon frame (probably retails for something crazy like A$8,000). On a destruct machine, the copies last about one 10th of the time the genuine one does. Looks can be deceiving!
 
Piranha Brother 2 said:
I guess copyright comes into it - if you can afford the money to pursue it.
Click to expand...

So why aren't thousand of copyright infringees standing at the Chinese gates demanding justice?
Cause it don't work, no matter your dollar persuasion they just say:  操你 Cāo nǐ
 
In an ideal world you could put a fence around them till they decided to become a responsible member of the world community. But they are now TO BIG TO FAIL. Maybe when the now incharge for life fearless leader falls off the peg some sense might come to the fore just like when the Iron Curtin fell apart. It always surprise me how one bloke can carry this stuff off.
 
chrisk said:
So why aren't thousand of copyright infringees standing at the Chinese gates demanding justice?
Cause it don't work, no matter your dollar persuasion they just say:  操你 Cāo nǐ
Click to expand...

You reply with .... "您无用的皮肤浪费........您最好的部分从母亲屁股的缝隙中滑落，并在床单上留下了棕色的污渍。"

Jim
 
So before this thread gets shut down there are a couple of things.
Yes you can buy Chinese stuff for your moto or whatever, however, when you do
. Know that the product will most likely disappoint.
. You are supporting  the CCP no matter what you think.
.When you do, you take that sale away from someone one who is making the real deal, their product, more likely will not disappoint, they pay taxes, employ people and most likely pay them a decent wage.
.End result is the legitimate manufacturer will go out of business leaving only the cheap copy.
.The energy that is required to make the Chinese copy, in raw materials, power, shipping ect is the same as that needed to make the real product. the difference being that the real product has a longer life before needing replacing. In the case of shocks, a good set of shocks bought now would last the life of the bike.
.We have all seen manufacturing disappear from our countries and go to China, we are all complicit in this and if you are happy with that, then simply continue to buy made in China.

I realise it is almost impossible to completely boycott China, this keyboard that Im typing on is made there, but boycotting them is the only way to make them change.

I have left out all the human right infractions of the CCP going back to their inception as this is I would have thought is pretty much common knowledge.

Yes Craig, I do have issues, dont we all at our age? but my main issue is with made in china, what is surprising to me is that others dont have an issue with it.

(bolt)
Tom




 
It all comes back to Karl Marx but really it was the French Revolution that started the whole bloody thing in the first place...
 
my father (a thoroughbred truly English gentleman) was a flt/Lt in RAF Bomber command during WW11, he flew (mainly) daylight raids in four types of twin engine bomber and saw things that even 40 years later he could not bring himself to finishing of the telling to me. he was twice saved by his Irvin parachute and both times in the North sea, one of them he trod water for eight hours before being picked up by an MTB. Another crash was on take off fully loaded, bombs and fuel, engine failure caused him to choose to ditch inside the airfield perimeter, (rather than a safer crash landing elsewhere but with risky access for rescue services) the aircraft flipped onto its back and all crew were killed except the man who decided to ditch, my father. He lived the rest of his life with that.
but in many ways he was also extremely lucky and completed 103 bombing missions (yes that's into the fourth tour) when the average was less than twenty before death.

During the years 1945 until his natural death in 1995, he refused to buy anything Japanese or German, unless the item was pre-war. I wanted to carry that on, but I have been unable to do it.

CLEM
 
We all have a similar story from all sides of the wars... our German and Japanese friends have stories too. God bless them
 
but they were the aggressors and we  (Poland Holland, Belgium, France, USA, Great Britain etc) the defenders
fortunately now (mostly) sorted.
CLEM
 
Interesting conversation....

My 2p.

Since the dawn of time man has been beating man over the head with the biggest weapon he could lay his hands on at the time. It is the nature of the beast, or to be more precise, the nature of OUR beast - us.

This beating-up can be physical, emotional, financial - a myriad of different ways. We even invent stuff to argue about when we run out of real reasons 'my god is better that your god' for example.

Economies, empires, races, villages, counties, political trends, religions, cultures all rise and fall over time. We all belong to a 'group' that has at sometime started a shit-fest somewhere, even if it was a long time ago.  If you are on the 'inside' of a rising group - the world seems comfortable, when you are on the 'outside' it feels threatening and scary.

As we get older we see things in better balance and see what is right, but things move sooo slowly with human integration. Anyway, were all fooked in the long term because of population growth.

Beware power hungry cunts.

Here ends my cheery little synopsis of human relations  :)  Love ya guys!

 
Problem is, despite all our moaning and whinging, it's our fault that China has risen to the position it now takes up.

Western industries have looked to 3rd. world countries, including China, for cheap labour and/or production facilities over the past 4-5 decades.  European-, American- or Australian-made products are just too expensive to compete, due to the wage costs that have laid the foundation to our living standards.  Japan was content to copy and improve on western designs, although laughed at in the 50s and 60s, their industries have now reached standards that are difficult for "westerners" to equal, let alone surpass.  They literally took over the photographic and audio markets, they play a decisive role in many other markets.  Now, they're laughing at us...

China has pushed forward massively, taking full advantage of western greed.  They expand aggressively, buying companies worlwide, often only for patents and know-how, again, mostly because they are the highest bidder... there's that greed thing again.  Lots of moaning going on about that as well, especially in Oz, but it always takes two.  Don't sell to the Chinese if you don't want them to get hold of your technologies.

With almost all large western corporations expanding to the middle and far-east to satisfy the enormous upcoming markets there, it's difficult to understand the gripes against Chinas efforts here.  We're actually no better.

A couple of years ago, I urgently needed a pair of brake discs for my triple for the Bikers Classics event that was just a week away.  I couldn't source anything suitable in the short time, except for an eBay item from China.  Thought I may as well run the risk, the price was more than competitive and they arrived in 3 days!  Inspection showed they were extremely well made, close tolerances and beautifully machined surfaces.  A run around the block showed they also worked well.  These discs have since survived 2 Bikers Classics events, next to many road kilometres.  They look abosolutely identical to Braking brand aftermarket discs, in fact, I'd say they are the same item, save for the branding.  At a guess, Braking has them produced in China and simply applies their brand name.  The same producer sells them ex-factory for a fraction of the Braking price.  Yes, one could describe this as piratry, but it also shows how western companies manage to pull the bucks out of our pockets, charging us exhorbitant prices for stuff they have commissioned in low-cost countries.  I'm guessing the chinese vendor makes a couple of bucks on the el-cheapo discs, but Braking makes about 8-10 times that for exactly the same item!  Pretty sure what seems fairer to me.

piet
 
Absolutely Piet.

I'm in European automotive engineering and the rush to 'use' China after they embraced capitalism was astonishing. Sure, there were some bad experiences, but they were in the minority. The rate of change / learning in Chinese companies was incredible.
 
I have owned for quite a few years a Miroku u/o shotgun, made in Japan, and the company owned by Browning, Belgium, or maybe the other way around, who knows or cares, my Miroku was several thousands of pounds and is an item of beauty as well as exceptionally fine manufacture, an absolute joy to hold, own and most importantly use, the identical item can be bought with the Browning name on it but costs in the low tens of thousands of pounds, supposedly "hand finished" in belgium, even parts interchange, and all guns have to be made to exacting dimensions, so what's this "hand finished crap" there are lesser priced Brownings, of course,  by a long margin, but these are not available as Miroku, I strongly think that they are made by Miroku.
CLEM
 
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