benefit of the doubt
- Thread starter johnwh
- Start date
Spub
Hero member
You've evidently never seen what can be done with a salad strainer in a bar fight, Paul...
henry
Hero member
- Location
- bottom left hand corner of germany
i bought some stuff from the states three weeks back. it arrived at customs (stupid deutsche post delivered it in freiburg, 50 km away instead of down the road in weil am rhein) after a week - impressed - sent the proof of purchase price, got the bill, paid it same day, still waiting for my stuff, bureaucrats!!!
D
dja981
Guest
henry said:
Viagra?
Dave
Laverdalothar
Hero member
- Location
- Germany
Hi Henry,
another Laverdisti also told me all the time how great other countries are, that they do have less restrictions, better service etc. than in Germany.
then, he tried to register a bike in Belgium instead of Germany. It took him 2 weeks or more as far as I remember, as he had to send in all papers and only got it back after they managed to go through all this paperwork etc. There was no problem with it, just it took 2 weeks.
In Germany, the last registration including driving to the registration office, waiting time, getting new numberplates done, getting all stickers, payment and travel back to my home was - below 3 hours. They even asked me if I would like different numbers or letters on the number-plate, which never happened before.
Talked yesterday to a german that lives in Spain. He told me that getting a bike MOT'd includes now a brake check on a special brake-check station (in Germany the tester rides the bike up and down the MOT-place, brakes front and rear and that's it). To get an appointment, it takes a week or two. Without appointment - no chance to get someone to MOT your vehicle. In Germany, the re-registration of the 750 that was off the road for 30 years took 1 hour. No appointment needed. In April, I T?Ved 5 vehicles on one Saturday - without appointment (trailer, car and 3 bikes), the week after again 1 car and a scooter. They even did not check the frame number as that is hidden on the VESPA.
Last time a seller in US sent me some spares, he sent me a mail saying "I'll send you some xxx for your ride as a compensation for your hospitality last time. They are so old, I can't put a price-tag on it." Presenting that to the customs officer, he said: "OK - as a gift it's free of customs." It really only took a copy of the mail, which I even could have written myself...
So - I think overall the situation with bureaucrats has really much improved over the past 20 - 30 years in Germany. Still, on some things just like you experienced - there are people that make faults. Not sure this is due to a complicate or silly process or personal deficits of the person that makes the fault. But believe me one thing: I work for american companies since roughly 20 years now. In the 90's, they were very easy to deal with and flexible in how we did business. Since 2000 the internet bubble burst, so many regulations have been implemented that you almost can't sell anything anymore without 10 pre-approvals... Really a mess. Getting an offer out for standard products takes us between 3 and 10 days today. If it's a bit more complicated or over 100.000USD, it can be double that timeframe as to many people and departments have to be involved, time zones come into play which slows down responses etc. etc. - an unbelievable bureaucracy which would never happen in a german company that way. 100% sure. (well - 99% at least...).
My company is a software company. if there is a problem with our product that needs a change of the code, the fix will only be implemented into a new release. As the BETA-testing for the next release normally already runs, a new problem only makes it into the OVERNEXT release. This is due to extensive testing processes, which for sure is a good thing but means for the customer, that he has to wait 3 months for a fix! There are good reason for why we do that this way, but if you try to get the fix earlier "just for this customer" - no way, even if it's a minor change of the code. There are times in the year where I have to make more calls with endusers and partners to apologize for delays than I am able to make new sales calls...
another Laverdisti also told me all the time how great other countries are, that they do have less restrictions, better service etc. than in Germany.
then, he tried to register a bike in Belgium instead of Germany. It took him 2 weeks or more as far as I remember, as he had to send in all papers and only got it back after they managed to go through all this paperwork etc. There was no problem with it, just it took 2 weeks.
In Germany, the last registration including driving to the registration office, waiting time, getting new numberplates done, getting all stickers, payment and travel back to my home was - below 3 hours. They even asked me if I would like different numbers or letters on the number-plate, which never happened before.
Talked yesterday to a german that lives in Spain. He told me that getting a bike MOT'd includes now a brake check on a special brake-check station (in Germany the tester rides the bike up and down the MOT-place, brakes front and rear and that's it). To get an appointment, it takes a week or two. Without appointment - no chance to get someone to MOT your vehicle. In Germany, the re-registration of the 750 that was off the road for 30 years took 1 hour. No appointment needed. In April, I T?Ved 5 vehicles on one Saturday - without appointment (trailer, car and 3 bikes), the week after again 1 car and a scooter. They even did not check the frame number as that is hidden on the VESPA.
Last time a seller in US sent me some spares, he sent me a mail saying "I'll send you some xxx for your ride as a compensation for your hospitality last time. They are so old, I can't put a price-tag on it." Presenting that to the customs officer, he said: "OK - as a gift it's free of customs." It really only took a copy of the mail, which I even could have written myself...
So - I think overall the situation with bureaucrats has really much improved over the past 20 - 30 years in Germany. Still, on some things just like you experienced - there are people that make faults. Not sure this is due to a complicate or silly process or personal deficits of the person that makes the fault. But believe me one thing: I work for american companies since roughly 20 years now. In the 90's, they were very easy to deal with and flexible in how we did business. Since 2000 the internet bubble burst, so many regulations have been implemented that you almost can't sell anything anymore without 10 pre-approvals... Really a mess. Getting an offer out for standard products takes us between 3 and 10 days today. If it's a bit more complicated or over 100.000USD, it can be double that timeframe as to many people and departments have to be involved, time zones come into play which slows down responses etc. etc. - an unbelievable bureaucracy which would never happen in a german company that way. 100% sure. (well - 99% at least...
). My company is a software company. if there is a problem with our product that needs a change of the code, the fix will only be implemented into a new release. As the BETA-testing for the next release normally already runs, a new problem only makes it into the OVERNEXT release. This is due to extensive testing processes, which for sure is a good thing but means for the customer, that he has to wait 3 months for a fix! There are good reason for why we do that this way, but if you try to get the fix earlier "just for this customer" - no way, even if it's a minor change of the code. There are times in the year where I have to make more calls with endusers and partners to apologize for delays than I am able to make new sales calls...
G
Grant
Guest
Bureaucratic nightmare in Spain.
The ITV test is heavily based on the T?V system (says so in their document).
When I got the Corsa tested in September they even tested the noise level in a soundproof room, tested the brakes on a set of driven rollers and photograhed the frame number.
I had been talking earlier with a guy getting his 1911 Darracq car tested (yep 100 years old) and they even had that on the driven rollers to test the brakes (wooden wheels too!) No exceptions given for even a 100 year old car. I have pics but have no clue how to get them off my phone.. D'uh....
On top of all the bureaucratic nonsense for the Spanish registered bikes I have there is another level to go through for the UK reg bikes and POP which is Spanish but has no papers. It will require a (Spanish) club letter of validation, an engineers report, the ITV test and a mountain of paperwork. Oh, and 1000 euros each thankyouverymuch.
Think yourselves lucky in other countries where it takes hours, days or even weeks.
I started registration of the Corsa at the end of May (supposed to take 4 to 6 weeks). Still waiting, and 1300 euros lighter for the privilege.
Hijos de putas.
The ITV test is heavily based on the T?V system (says so in their document).
When I got the Corsa tested in September they even tested the noise level in a soundproof room, tested the brakes on a set of driven rollers and photograhed the frame number.
I had been talking earlier with a guy getting his 1911 Darracq car tested (yep 100 years old) and they even had that on the driven rollers to test the brakes (wooden wheels too!) No exceptions given for even a 100 year old car. I have pics but have no clue how to get them off my phone.. D'uh....
On top of all the bureaucratic nonsense for the Spanish registered bikes I have there is another level to go through for the UK reg bikes and POP which is Spanish but has no papers. It will require a (Spanish) club letter of validation, an engineers report, the ITV test and a mountain of paperwork. Oh, and 1000 euros each thankyouverymuch.
Think yourselves lucky in other countries where it takes hours, days or even weeks.
I started registration of the Corsa at the end of May (supposed to take 4 to 6 weeks). Still waiting, and 1300 euros lighter for the privilege.
Hijos de putas.
Laverdalothar
Hero member
- Location
- Germany
Hi Grant,
I think there is good and bad in any country of this nice globe and for sure, in some situations the German processes tend to be as complicate and expensive as the Spanish, Brittish or others. But to be honest, especially the T?V situation has much improved since the EU gets more and more influence. Just one example: rear blinkers/turn signals had to have a certain size, had to be reaching out at least 5 cm or so over the number plate etc. etc. etc. Now, you can mount blinkers almost what ever size (Kellerman are the smallest I think that you can mount) and the even don't have be mounted directly aside the numberplate or even stand out. What is allowed now would have make them almost take my bike off the road 10 years ago...
Noise tests can't be made anymore anywhere in Germany, as the rules says that there may not be any hedge or wall within a distance of 100 meter. Find a T?V place that has that kind of environment...
So - things have really improved and especially getting oldtimers registered is less of a problem. Even the size of the numberplate has recently been dramatically reduced for bikes, which was a huge discussion in the past...
I think there is good and bad in any country of this nice globe and for sure, in some situations the German processes tend to be as complicate and expensive as the Spanish, Brittish or others. But to be honest, especially the T?V situation has much improved since the EU gets more and more influence. Just one example: rear blinkers/turn signals had to have a certain size, had to be reaching out at least 5 cm or so over the number plate etc. etc. etc. Now, you can mount blinkers almost what ever size (Kellerman are the smallest I think that you can mount) and the even don't have be mounted directly aside the numberplate or even stand out. What is allowed now would have make them almost take my bike off the road 10 years ago...
Noise tests can't be made anymore anywhere in Germany, as the rules says that there may not be any hedge or wall within a distance of 100 meter. Find a T?V place that has that kind of environment...
So - things have really improved and especially getting oldtimers registered is less of a problem. Even the size of the numberplate has recently been dramatically reduced for bikes, which was a huge discussion in the past...
B
Breganze-Engineering
Guest
Going back to buying stuff from The USA, im a gunmaker & the Worlds biggest Gunsmiths supply firm is in Montezuma, Iowa (Oh, yes!), my younger Sister lives in Baltimore so I get the tools, jigs etc I buy from them sent to her, she re wraps the box in plain brown paper & sends it to my house address, marking it as a gift.
Using this system i have never paid import duty or VAT, if it comes directly from Brownell's, its held in London until & pay all charges & if I pay by cheque, they wait 5 days for it to clear 1st.....
I also ship guns to the US & its pretty straightforward by comparason!
Ross.
Using this system i have never paid import duty or VAT, if it comes directly from Brownell's, its held in London until & pay all charges & if I pay by cheque, they wait 5 days for it to clear 1st.....
I also ship guns to the US & its pretty straightforward by comparason!
Ross.
71Laverda750SF
Hero member
- Location
- The Sunshine State
Being from the states I have bought a ton of my laverda parts from the EU, and the only issue I had was one package shipped from Germany has never arrived (a year and half ago) through DHL. Emails to DHL turned up more BS than one can take. Everthing else has made it fine. Buying from the guys here in the states has been good, no real issues. One thing that eats me is the VAT added on exports. It would be great if we set up freinds throughout the world that would be willing to "re-box" and ship at cheaper rates and no VAT (customs here). Another thing is paypal adds insult to injury with the exchange rates which they openly admit are 2.5% LESS than the current bank rates.
andychain
Hero member
Although paypal is a little costly, it is quick and easy for both seller and buyer.
If you ever do bank transfers the costs involved for both parties can get steep. If you are dealing in relatively small amounts
than paypal is quick and easy. Just had ?600 transferred from USA and my bank charges alone were ?30. I offer both bank transfer
and paypal but if you think they charge well you should look at the hidden charges for card sales.
Andy
If you ever do bank transfers the costs involved for both parties can get steep. If you are dealing in relatively small amounts
than paypal is quick and easy. Just had ?600 transferred from USA and my bank charges alone were ?30. I offer both bank transfer
and paypal but if you think they charge well you should look at the hidden charges for card sales.
Andy
DoC!
Hero member
If you want to play on eBay it makes sense to understand the rules first.
My son has an e-commerce business on eBay and elsewhere (plug Fyldesports here for anything sporty) and he tells me that eBay and Paypal are ALWAYS on the side of the buyer as long as you file a complaint within 45 days of the initial purchase.
I hope this helps sort any problems out, although having said that, I find 99% of motorcyclists are honest people and the rest are Hells Angels.....
Where have I heard that before?
Cheers
DoC!
My son has an e-commerce business on eBay and elsewhere (plug Fyldesports here for anything sporty
) and he tells me that eBay and Paypal are ALWAYS on the side of the buyer as long as you file a complaint within 45 days of the initial purchase.I hope this helps sort any problems out, although having said that, I find 99% of motorcyclists are honest people and the rest are Hells Angels.....
Where have I heard that before?
Cheers
DoC!