Best bike for everyday road riding 1969-1984 ;o)

"No, I wish I had a TZ750 in my garage. I’ve got an 89 Honda RC30, a bike that, yes, was found at select high volume Honda showrooms during that era. Such was never the case with a TZ750."

I built from parts (mainly from GP sidecar racers who were buying the bikes so as to rob the engine for their specific needs) a TZ500 a few years ago, that had 120BHP compared to the TZ750's 100BHP, it had to go due to a huge bounced cheque and the tax man banging on my door, but hey ho

You are technically wrong as in the quote there was a Yamaha prototype TZ750 for the road, it is lost, but you ca bet your bottom dollar one day it will surface.
A long while ago Stan Stevens built a TZ700 into an RD350 chassis and changed the heads and barrells for RD350 road items, it even had a kickstart (again from the RD). When he closed up shop at Brands Hatch he offerred it to me for £1600, big regret not snapping it up. Aparently the cranks didnt last very long, them being TZ items, when I was sidecar mechanicing, I seem to recal it was 50 miles racing for ring change, 250 miles for pistons change and 500 for crank change, but that is from memory. Not exactly ideal for a road bike!
CLEM
 
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CLEMTOG said:
"No, I wish I had a TZ750 in my garage. I’ve got an 89 Honda RC30, a bike that, yes, was found at select high volume Honda showrooms during that era. Such was never the case with a TZ750."

I built from parts (mainly from GP sidecar racers who were buying the bikes so as to rob the engine for their specific needs) a TZ500 a few years ago, that had 120BHP compared to the TZ750's 100BHP, it had to go due to a huge bounced cheque and the tax man banging on my door, but hey ho

You are technically wrong as in the quote there was a Yamaha prototype TZ750 for the road, it is lost, but you ca bet your bottom dollar one day it will surface.
A long while ago Stan Stevens built a TZ700 into an RD350 chassis and changed the heads and barrells for RD350 road items, it even had a kickstart (again from the RD). When he closed up shop at Brtands Hatch he offerred it to me for £1600, big regret not snapping it up. Aparently the cranks didnt last very long them being TZ items, when I was sidecar mechanicing, I seem to recal it was 50 miles racing for ring change, 250 miles for pistons change and 500 for crank change, but that is from memory. Not exactly ideal for a road bike!
CLEM
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RC30 was pre-order only, so you had to cough up before we could get one in, not a stocked model.
Sold first two to a postman who lived with his mum and one of them we delivered in the crate where it remained…
Sold another to a plasterer who couldn’t understand why it was so cheap- loadsa money!
Bob Heath ( visor man) had two, one for the road and one to race, but he swapped the motors , allegedly, so the race engine was covered by road bike warranty…🤔
 
Hmm..wasnt it Mike the Bike who said you needed 80hp ideally for the IOM? Actually, the 74hp from my Husky 701sm will see off pretty much anything on a road with some bends, or, per youtube vids, on tighter tracks. Less is more😉 I love my Jota, but it would be toast against this Supermoto ktm single of just 690 cc.
 
There was a four cylinder water cooled in line two stroke Yamaha that was shown at the `72 Tokyo motorcycle show ......... Not sure if the internals were a doubled up TZ350 ....... and I think they may have still been air-cooled at that time ....

This bike was called the GL750 ........ and styled in typical early `70`s fashion , a little like Suzukis GT750 .........

The GL750 never went into production , Yamaha obviously taking into account impending emissions rules in the USA which would eventually kill off the large capacity two-stroke ......



Regarding the sell off of the Laverda Agri Division to Fiat ........... I believe the proceeds had to be distributed to all Laverda family members ..... ( Piero and Massimo had something like five sisters , I think ) ......... So although Massimo would have wanted to invest the proceeds into the Moto Laverda motorcycle division , other family members were opposed to this , not willing to invest their share of the proceeds into what they viewed as a failing business ....... (or at least one with a limited future ..... ) .........
 
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Exmoor beast said:
RC30 was pre-order only, so you had to cough up before we could get one in, not a stocked model.
Sold first two to a postman who lived with his mum and one of them we delivered in the crate where it remained…
Sold another to a plasterer who couldn’t understand why it was so cheap- loadsa money!
Bob Heath ( visor man) had two, one for the road and one to race, but he swapped the motors , allegedly, so the race engine was covered by road bike warranty…🤔
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Yer, that sounds like Bob, he’s always been a bit cheeky...
 
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rocketonarail said:
There was a four cylinder water cooled in line two stroke Yamaha that was shown at the `72 Tokyo motorcycle show .........
This bike was called the GL750
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I remember when that bike appeared in the motorcycle media. I'd just bought a Honda 750 in 1971, but I reckon that Yamaha would have had more street cred if it had ever made it into production. I'd have been tempted to trade the Honda in.
www.motorcycle.com

Archive: 1971 Yamaha GL 750

In 1971, I was no more than a pup, but that was probably about the time I started reading all the motorcycle magazines at the drugstore, of which there were a bunch.Twenty years later, when writing motorcycle magazines became my business, and I spent a large amount of time rooting through back...
www.motorcycle.com www.motorcycle.com
 
Exmoor beast said:
RC30 was pre-order only, so you had to cough up before we could get one in, not a stocked model.
Sold first two to a postman who lived with his mum and one of them we delivered in the crate where it remained…
Sold another to a plasterer who couldn’t understand why it was so cheap- loadsa money!
Bob Heath ( visor man) had two, one for the road and one to race, but he swapped the motors , allegedly, so the race engine was covered by road bike warranty…🤔
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Honda Canada imported 50 into the North American continent in 1989, full spec without the Japanese reduced power output. All 50 were distributed to dealers who wanted one, case by case. Most all were bought by private citizens, perhaps 50% automatically out to race trim and raced in CSB superbike series, after rider Reuben McMurter won the 1988 championship on a 1988 model. Race crashes, USA exports, etc, there are less than 20 in Canada. I know of VIN #0000000001 new in the crate at. Shop in Brockton, Ontario, and #000000010 in a crate new in Vancouver. Im caretaker of #000000042, a machine sold new off the showroom in Vancouver suburb Honda dealer in Richmond , late 1989.
Of course this machine has nothing to do with the subject matter of this thread, except as an example of a machine that was available to buying general public for legal road use, unlike the TZ750, which was explicitly a machine that was never originally equipped with street lights, signals, brake lights, and therefore never available to general public.

We could start another thread which could encompass ALL bikes made in this era, they all would be full race bikes never available for sale except to
Private race teams
 
In 1976 when I was riding a Yamaha RD250 there was a TZ750 for sale at $1600. It was on the side of the road with a big chain attaching it to a light pole. At the time I had no money or I would have bought it and made it street legal.
 
nick7 said:
Hmm..wasnt it Mike the Bike who said you needed 80hp ideally for the IOM? Actually, the 74hp from my Husky 701sm will see off pretty much anything on a road with some bends, or, per youtube vids, on tighter tracks. Less is more😉 I love my Jota, but it would be toast against this Supermoto ktm single of just 690 cc.
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I guess nearly 50 years ago that was true, and even then I doubt more than a handful of riders could make the most of 80hp, but now I think Hickey, Micky D etc would say 180hp+ is what you ideally need.
 
And exactly what use is 200hp on the street? Go directly to gaol, do no not pass go, do not collect £200...😂 74hp in 140kg in a supermoto is simply unbeatable...seat as hard as rock, mind😁 Do you think those GS riders use the 140hp now available...when you think my Honda SP1 makes just 130 and its hard to use that anywhere...
 
Andy J said:
I guess nearly 50 years ago that was true, and even then I doubt more than a handful of riders could make the most of 80hp, but now I think Hickey, Micky D etc would say 180hp+ is what you ideally need.
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80hp on crap tyres/ brakes would have been exciting. I saw first 120mph lap and remember thinking they can’t go any faster…Think how long the lap record stood at 110mph or there abouts. The guys now are superhuman.
 
nick7 said:
And exactly what use is 200hp on the street? Go directly to gaol, do no not pass go, do not collect £200...😂 74hp in 140kg in a supermoto is simply unbeatable...seat as hard as rock, mind😁 Do you think those GS riders use the 140hp now available...when you think my Honda SP1 makes just 130 and its hard to use that anywhere...
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I tend to agree with you Nick, that 200hp is a bit excessive for going down the road to your local cafe and is generally only going to get used on a track day. However, I do still see plenty of vids of riders clearly taking the piss of speed limits and are willing to risk losing their licences, so they may not agree.
Fortunately, I don’t have to worry too much about that on the IOM, although I’m sure it’s only a matter of time before we also have a national speed limit imposed island wide.
However, even I’m starting to show my age a bit and am less likely to adhere to the ‘Alex Frost’ rules when I’m now out on the bike: rule one, let no one overtake you; rule two, pass absolutely everything in front of you.
A good example of this was a couple of days ago when I took a Viking chum’s 20 year old RSVR out for a blast over the mountain and back. On the way back I came up behind a queue of cars going around the verandah and in among the cars was a rider on a large, more modern Jap multi. We had passed all the cars by the time we got to the Bungalow. He had obviously spotted me behind as he opened it up as we headed off up to Hailwood Heights. I then followed him all the way to the Creg, where I turned off to head home. He was quite the typical point and squirt merchant, and I could have on numerous occasions passed him, but I didn’t.
I suppose the point I’m making is, you’re right you can still have a bit of fun, and do it in a way that increases your chances of getting home safely, on a bike that has a lot less than 200hp. In fact, I almost get the same amount of enjoyment out of my 60hp, but slightly lardy, C600 Sport.
 
Short RC30 story to put the cost of them in the context of the period.

Honda dealer here - Taranaki for Andy's info - had his long ordered RC30 arrive. Proudly got it road reg and rode it home at lunch time several times. Before he'd done any serious mileage, the parts fische and price list arrived....
One look through the price list and it was taken home in the shop van, tucked away behind the couch in the lounge and never brought out again.
 
GregT said:
Short RC30 story to put the cost of them in the context of the period.

Honda dealer here - Taranaki for Andy's info - had his long ordered RC30 arrive. Proudly got it road reg and rode it home at lunch time several times. Before he'd done any serious mileage, the parts fische and price list arrived....
One look through the price list and it was taken home in the shop van, tucked away behind the couch in the lounge and never brought out again.
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So bit of 'green-frame Honda' Greg? Too rare, worth too much ... cocoon it. What's the point of building a motorcycle noone is willing to ride??!!

I would absolutely hate to throw the SFQ down the road, but I'll still punt it hard - the endless hours that went into making it definitely play on my mind when cranking it over at the Island or on some windy road - there's a bit more tyre to explore but I'm not yet willing to go there. There's also old age and reduced capacity and an unwillingness to end up in a hospital bed!
 
piranha-bro2 said:
So bit of 'green-frame Honda' Greg? Too rare, worth too much ... cocoon it. What's the point of building a motorcycle noone is willing to ride??!!

I would absolutely hate to throw the SFQ down the road, but I'll still punt it hard - the endless hours that went into making it definitely play on my mind when cranking it over at the Island or on some windy road - there's a bit more tyre to explore but I'm not yet willing to go there. There's also old age and reduced capacity and an unwillingness to end up in a hospital bed!
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Homologation. WSB entry rules.
 
One thing about the RC30 and it`s contemporary , the OW01 Yamaha .......... The Yamaha was a fair few thousand quid more to buy than the Honda , here in the UK anyway , something like £12 grand as opposed to £9 grand , I think , or something like that .......

The thing with homologation specials is that you really needed the factory race kit to release their full potential ........... the OW01 you wheeled out of the showroom would only make a fairly mundane 115-120 bhp or so .......... Fit the YEC race kit ..... ( all the usual engine bits , plus a radiator big enough to heat the Royal Albert Hall ... ) .... and that would bump it up to 145-150 bhp ....... Similar deal with the Honda ......

......... Although the Honda was cheaper than the Yamaha , the race kit cost more , whereas the Yamaha`s race kit cost less ............... so if you wanted maximum " go " , then the price for both bikes ended up pretty much the same ......


Then there is also the thing regarding " press bikes " ...... if you like to read magazine articles relating to which ( or which not ) may be the fastest bike .......

BSA-Triumph were well known for passing " press bikes " through their Competitions Department , before handing them over to journalists ......

KAA 848N would quite happily post top speeds in the 125 mph bracket when tested by the magazines , but that was at least 15 mph more than you or I could expect from the T160 Trident sitting in the window of your local dealership ........
............. ( My T160 was reluctant to better a miserable 100 mph when sitting upright .............. Ir was an export version , although I fitted it with the large 5 gallon " home" tank and low bars ..... I now believe some of these were fitted with low compression pistons , in order to cope with newly introduced unleaded fuel in the USA ............ identified by a " L " stamped on the front engine mounting lug ............. Didn`t know this at the time , so never looked that closely ... ) ......

Suzuki`s RG500 square four two stroke race -rep also took a detour through Suzuki GB`s race workshop on it`s way to the magazines , as well , apparently , when being tested for the first time .......


...... Which brings us onto a story related by a certain Roger Slater himself , if I recall correctly .......

Roger was about to fly out on one of his visits to the Breganze factory , and he wanted to clear up some query or detail regarding the twin`s camshaft .......
Although he was heading to the factory , he decided to take a camshaft with him anyway ..... so removed the one from Slaters press / road test SF2 ........

When he arrived at the factory , he placed the camshaft down on a table in front of Massimo Laverda , and Luciano Zen ..... mentioning that he had removed it from his SF2 press demonstrator ......

Massimo and Luciano Zen both looked down at the camshaft , stared at it for a few seconds , then both looked up , and said together , in perfect unison ........ " SFC cam ? ... " .......

...... " Yes , yes , I know , but don`t worry about that .......... The thing is ............... " ................
 
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"And exactly what use is 200hp on the street?"

well now Nicko you bald headed legal eagle, given that much BHP you might be able to see me off on TOG, but I doubt it. Especially if it involves an 800 kilometre day!
CLEM
 
The local mag would do stories about building Superbikes for the Oz series, HCR radiators $20k etc etc. Eye-watering money.
 
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