Best clutch cable for a 1974 1000 3C ?

M

Mtoliva

Junior member
Location
London
Can anyone recommend a good clutch cable for an early 1000 3C, I looked at the Venhill web site but they only list cables for Jota’s, are these the same?
 
Mtoliva said:
Can anyone recommend a good clutch cable for an early 1000 3C, I looked at the Venhill web site but they only list cables for Jota’s, are these the same?
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Sadly, after five years of testing Venhill clutch cables, including working with them in an attempt to redesign the cables so that they fit and function correctly, I am forced to accept that they are not fit for use on a bike that is ridden.
I had "standard" cables fail within four weeks. The "Heavy Duty" ones are completely unsuitable and prevent fine control of the clutch.
My most recent co-designed 'Mark 2b' sets failed at 7,461 and 4,880 miles respectively.
My next tests will be on Jean-louis' and Werner's cables, to see how they hold up.
I will report back when I have data to share.Clutch Cable Mark II Lever Headlamp.jpgClutch Cable Mark II Yoke Tank.jpgClutch Cable Mark II Carb Airbox.jpgClutch Cable Mark II Gearbox end.jpg
 
Hi Hamish ......... Noticed you route your cable to the outside of lefthand carb ......... Have you tried routing it between the middle and lefthand carb , as I believe the factory did ( and as recommended by Tim Parker in the Green Book ) ....... May or may not make any difference to cable life , but I found routing it that way ( and with the Mirage bars , behind the speedo cable but in front of the rev counter cable at the top ) , meant although I had cable failures , always inner cable strands starting to break at the bar lever nipple , they were actually pretty far and few between ( probably only three or four over forty years ) ........ and that may have been a result of a pattern clutch lever which didn`t necessarily give a straight pull , putting extra strain on the inner cable at that point .......

Whenever I needed a replacement clutch lever , due to the pivot point going oval , pattern ones which didn`t fit as well as the factory ones were all that seemed to be available ..... ( usually from Miura ) ...........

I agree Venhill don`t always seem to be the most robust , although they will supply them with longer length , don`t know if you`ve tried that , or if it would be likely to make any difference .........

Best bet was always to carry a spare .... two of the breakages I had were miles from home ...... I had a really thin , lightweight clutch cable I always carried with me .... No idea where I got that , or who manufactured it , and I wouldn`t trust it to last for any length of time ....... but being so weedy it was easy to carry in the seat tail of the Mirage , and was a perfect emergency get you home solution , where it would then be replaced with a " proper " one , and then returned to the seat tail again ready for next time ......... :) ...............

Regards , Tony
 
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Actually , there were five out and about clutch cable breakages I can now recall , or have recorded ............

They were ...... Dodington , near Old Sodbury ...... Axmouth , near Seaton in Devon ....... Sherston in Wiltshire ....... Ilminster in Somerset ........ and somewhere near Yeovil , again in Somerset .........

An easy roadside fix , as long as you carry a spare ( which I did ) .

The Dodington repair I remember taking place on a traffic island , with cars and trucks whizzing all around me ........ the Yeovil one , in a lay by somewhere , saw a Jap custom rider stop and purposefully stride towards me , with that resigned look of having to help out a " fellow biker " ( I assured him everything was under control , and he phut - phutted off again ) ....... the Sherston one took about twice as long as it should have done , as a chap renovating a cottage across the road offered tools ( not needed , but which was good of him ) , and then started to chat about Jotas and Slaters .......

The most amusing was the Ilminster one , again in a lay by ........ a Honda CB250 rider stopped , approached open mouthed seeing the petrol tank on the ground , and asked " Blimey mate , what the hell has happened there ... ? " .......... Anyone would think I`d decided to stop by the side of the road to grind in a new set of valves , or something .......

All good fun ............
 
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Experiencing so many failures, I'd start asking myself, why? They can't possibly be all down to low-quality, sub-standard cables.

I haven't had a cable (clutch or otherwise) fail on the 3C for over 40 years, only replaced now and then because they were truely shoddy externally. One clutch failure on wifeys' 500, one on the GTL (custom clutch cable, my own fault), in 44 years as a Laverda rider.

We sold many Venhill cables out of OCT, can't recall any complaints.

My bikes mostly call for customised cables throughout, I make them myself. Even if only for aesthetic reasons.

piet
 
sfcpiet said:
Experiencing so many failures, I'd start asking myself, why? They can't possibly be all down to low-quality, sub-standard cables.

I haven't had a cable (clutch or otherwise) fail on the 3C for over 40 years, only replaced now and then because they were truely shoddy externally. One clutch failure on wifeys' 500, one on the GTL (custom clutch cable, my own fault), in 44 years as a Laverda rider.

We sold many Venhill cables out of OCT, can't recall any complaints.

My bikes mostly call for customised cables throughout, I make them myself. Even if only for aesthetic reasons.

piet
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The problem arises because of the advances (?) in cables over the years, Piet.
The OEM cables had a a large crimped trumpet nipple inside the barrel nipple in the handlebar lever. The OEM cables announced that they required replacement by showing a a few separated strands.

Clutch Cable OEM 1.jpgClutch Cable OEM 4.jpg
OEM after 20,000+ miles

Modern cables are capable of carrying a greater load from a smaller size, much like modern chains, which should make for better feel and less friction. Unfortunately, Venhill can no longer source trumpets and barrels like the original, they use a much smaller trumpet, little bigger diameter than the inner cable itself. The problem is exacerbated by soldering, as opposed to crimping.

Clutch Cable Venhill 1.jpgClutch Cable Venhill 2.jpg
Venhill after 2,300 miles
Consequently, the stresses cause premature failure.
The cables are a service item and should be replaced before failure but, according to Venhill, service life should be at least 10,000 mls./16,000 kms.

To be fair, my living in London means my clutch almost certainly gets used a lot more than those living in more rural settings.
Having a cable fail in rush hour City traffic is also a great deal more hassle which motivates me more highly to find a reliable solution.

You pays your money,...
 
When my SF was my only means of transport, commuting a lot, touring, riding around everywhere virtually every day, I only ever broke one clutch cable (up in the Snowys in winter). I have replaced the odd one when doing major work or rebuilds but I've never carried a spare. SFQ has a Yamaha R1 clutch cable in it. had to do a couple of things to get the fit but was dead easy. And they're very high quality cables - bought from wreckers for $20
 
sfcpiet said:
Experiencing so many failures, I'd start asking myself, why? They can't possibly be all down to low-quality, sub-standard cables.

I haven't had a cable (clutch or otherwise) fail on the 3C for over 40 years, only replaced now and then because they were truely shoddy externally. One clutch failure on wifeys' 500, one on the GTL (custom clutch cable, my own fault), in 44 years as a Laverda rider.

We sold many Venhill cables out of OCT, can't recall any complaints.

My bikes mostly call for customised cables throughout, I make them myself. Even if only for aesthetic reasons.

piet
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This was over 40 years , and nearly 230,000 miles ( 400,000 km ) on the one bike .........

So roughly one new clutch cable needed every 50,000 miles ( 80,000 km ) , which wasn`t too much of a problem really , certainly not enough to start me wondering why ..........

I found tyres , batteries , CDI ignition coils , gearchange return springs , cam , primary , and final drive chains , and brake pads were coming up for replacement more frequently than a new clutch cable every 80,000 km ....... so I didn`t worry about it ...... just kept the inner cable lubricated , and the nipples and lever pivots greased , watched out for fraying where the inner met the nipple .......... Best bet would probably be to replace the cable at a specified date or mileage , as you would with other consumerables , but at the end of the day , it`s only an easily replaced clutch cable , not a rumbling main bearing , so why worry ?

Apart from frequent inspection and lubrication , correct routing helps ....... Also , as I mentioned earlier , proper Laverda clutch levers seemed to be thin on the ground back in the `eighties / nineties , so most factors I went to would supply pattern levers , which would be ok , but not give the correct in line cable pull of the Laverda lever ........... add in the lever pivot point wearing and starting to go oval towards the end of the levers life , and this will add up to increased strain on the inner cable at the handlebar end ...... Correct original Laverda levers are the way to go ......

BTW .............. I remember Tim Parker of the Green Book recommending Laverda owners taking up regular excercise of squeezing a tennis ball in their left hands , in order to build up sufficient muscle strength to operate the notoriously heavy !!! twin and triple clutch ........ Blimey ..... o_O ...........
 
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The Sock said:
The problem arises because of the advances (?) in cables over the years, Piet.
The OEM cables had a a large crimped trumpet nipple inside the barrel nipple in the handlebar lever. The OEM cables announced that they required replacement by showing a a few separated strands.

View attachment 93441View attachment 93442
OEM after 20,000+ miles

Modern cables are capable of carrying a greater load from a smaller size, much like modern chains, which should make for better feel and less friction. Unfortunately, Venhill can no longer source trumpets and barrels like the original, they use a much smaller trumpet, little bigger diameter than the inner cable itself. The problem is exacerbated by soldering, as opposed to crimping.

View attachment 93443View attachment 93444
Venhill after 2,300 miles
Consequently, the stresses cause premature failure.
The cables are a service item and should be replaced before failure but, according to Venhill, service life should be at least 10,000 mls./16,000 kms.

To be fair, my living in London means my clutch almost certainly gets used a lot more than those living in more rural settings.
Having a cable fail in rush hour City traffic is also a great deal more hassle which motivates me more highly to find a reliable solution.

You pays your money,...
Click to expand...
Lots going wrong with that cable, looks like the cable outer is too small causing it to rock and wear the aluminium feral.
My 750 has a heavy pull and I spent a long time routing adjusting and setting up to get it right. Friction ( caused by heavy action) can cause the barrel to stick in the lever ( sometimes a slight ticking can be felt) which in turn gives the cable a hard time just at the trumpet- add this to the fact the cable has been heated up at the same point and you’ve got a stress raiser. Worn clutch lever barrel bore can make the pull lopsided- causing more stress on the exact same point. Old levers,pattern cables , poor routing and of course total length can all add up to self destructing cables. I had mine made up by JJ cables and they are very good quality, no problems- had copies made from genuine ‘69 cables.
 
Hi All, I have found that grease (rather than a drop of oil) really helps longevity, when applied to the nipples.

Gotta be a joke in there somewhere....
 
Haggis said:
Hi All, I have found that grease (rather than a drop of oil) really helps longevity, when applied to the nipples.

Gotta be a joke in there somewhere....
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I was wondering how long it would take ....... :giggle: ........

BTW ..... Does anyone know why men have nipples ? ...... ( from a biological , rather than recreational viewpoint , that is ........ ) ........... Actually , I`ve just looked it up ....... It seems they come already attached , before embryos develop a sex ........

No soldering or crimping involved either , as far as I can see ..............
 
The Sock said:
View attachment 93449
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Apparently banana slugs are natural born hermaphrodites ....... everyone gets a penis ...........


.... Sorry about all this Mtoliva ........ By all means take a chance with Venhill`s Jota clutch cable ...... as The Sock says , any premature failure can be largely dependent on where and how you ride ........ If you do limited mileage mainly on quiet rural roads or motorways , then you should be fairly ok .......

If however , your mileage consists of congested , stop start , city centre traffic on a regular basis , then inspect the inner cable where it meets the nipple at the handlebar lever at frequent intervals ....... At first sight of one or two of those Venhill inner cable strands starting to break , then replace the cable with the spare one you purchased at the same time , then get another spare one for the next time this happens .........

My clutch cables tended to last for a long time , as I mentioned earlier , ...... about 50,000 miles or so ....... The reason they failed when I was out and about was because I left them in place for a period of time which probably exceeded their expected service life ..........

They looked fine when I set out , but old age will eventually take it`s toll , usually at the most unexpected and inconvenient moment ......

Regarding the Venhills , I would say if you cover large mileage , then replace them on a regular basis , even if they look perfectly ok ..... in any case keep them lubed and greased , as you would anyway , and watch for those early signs of breakage ........ then you can replace them in good time , in the comfort of your shed / garage , rather than in a lay by at the side of the road .......

Hope this helps .........
 
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go hydrauilic

and stuff the cables and mechanical doo dahh. Its a lot easier to top up a master cylinder if the seals are leaking a bit, or even a lot (aka The Old Duffer, who rode for a year with a leak and then onto Breganze, where Oro fixed it)) and even if you get complete failure, carrying a spare O ring is a cinch and only marginally longer time than changing a cable by the roadside, (if you have a side stand and can find a little hole in the grounds surface to give your bike an extra lean, or a packer under the reasr wheel) plus you will NEVER feel or hear clicks or gritty snatch feeling with hydraulics, just keep the pivot pin in the handle bar greased at service times and thats it! lighter as well if a 916 master cylinder fitted.
CLEM
 
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