Braided lines on SF2 F08 Brembos

angonemoto

Hero member
Location
Chicago, USA
Hi all,
Is it really something that will improve the performance of the front stoppers? The lines are so short I cant imagine its something I would notice. But I am considering them as I just cannot seem to get the system to bleed and set up correctly. No leaks, the brakes work but I am pulling the lever about half way before I feel any pressure. (I should probably check the pads, eh?)

While I have your ear, is there a fill line on the master? I have the metal body/metal cap version on my 74 SF2 with the rubber bladder in it and I just cannot see any fill line in there.

Thanks!
 
Hi, Bob.
Yes, they improve the braking, make a better point of pressure.
Besides from that, the original lines are at least 40 years old,
would be reason enough for me to change them (porosity).
Concerning the bleeding problems, I'd recommend to dismount
the hose connector from the fork and move it in different directions
while bleeding, an air bubble could be hidden in there.
Set the lever tight overnight with a cable tie after bleeding.

hth
Ernesto
 
Not sure what you mean by fill line on the master cylinder. To fill it with fluid, just remove the cap and rubber bellows and pour in the fluid. Put the cap back on before you start pumping the lever though, because the first bit of piston travel can squirt fluid up and out of the fluid reservoir.
 
I would hazard the your compensation (Vacuum break) hole in the master cylinder is blocked. you can't see or test it unless you take off the master cylinder reservoir.

Hard to bleed up  long travel of master cylinder until pads contact disk typical symptoms.

As you let the break lever off the oil goes the other way pulling the pads off the disk till the master cylinder passes the compensation hole which breaks the vacuum in the line to the master cylinder reservoir.  leaving the pads just off the disks. If it is blocked the vacuum pulls the pads off till the master cylinder passes the main reservoir supply hole which is back further, this pull the pads a lot further off the discs thus the next break application takes much more travel of the master cylinder.

http://www.laverdaforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,40234.msg46002.html#msg46002   
 
I do 3 things.
Replace hoses. You will feel the old hoses swelling as you pump the lever.

Replace master cylinder piston and seals. There will be crud in the m/c to remove first.

Replace piatons and seals in the calipers. Again remove any crud,  especially stuff hidden in the seal groove.

I put the metal parts in an ultrasonic bath after degreasing them.

If you change only the hoses it is only half a job and you could still have a spongy lever action.
 
Problem isn't the hoses.
The system on my SF2 with 40 year old hoses hardly moves at the lever before braking and the lever cannot be pulled back very far.
I'd guess something amiss master cylinder way.
Paul
 
Pistons corroded in caliper bores maybe, or piston in m/c crudded up.
 
Often bleed issues can be from the master cylinder end - take the m/c off the bars and angle it so the lever is higher than the hose and pump gently a few times (you don't need to loosen hoses or bleed it that way) - sometimes a few tiny bubbles can be trapped up there that won't travel through the hoses, caliper and bleed nipple - modern mc's have a bleed nipple incorporated.

Must say, I do like the theory about the bleed hole allowing the pads to travel too far from the disc. I also like Grant's idea a lot - upgrade the whole shebang.

qf
 
Otherwise you transfer to problem to the next weakest link, and that isn't a good idea with brakes.
 
Recently had a bleeding issue with the twin disc brake on the "other" bike. Vacuum bleeding and rubber band on the brake lever overnight didn't do the trick. Finally looked online for other options and came across Speedbleeder nipples. What a difference! within minutes the system was 100% air free and no hassle bleeding the system. Replacement Speedbleeders set me back less than ? 10,00 a pop on fleabay.

Looking at their website the 6100 should work on the Brembo 08 calipers, but better check with the manufacturer.


HTH
Gerald
 
I had a lot of problems bleeding the SF2 a few years ago, and there was lots of advice on this forum.

What finally worked was to:
-Bled thoroughly as per normal,
-Pull the lever in as far as you can go, and cable tile in place,
-Leave over night like this.

Should be much better in the morning.
(Perhaps one of the mechanics can elaborate).

Dale

 
Very well. I'll start with the master cylinder inspection while waiting for the brake lines and caliper kits to arrive.

To be clear about my first post, I was trying to figure out how much to fill the master. I've been filling it just under half way before putting the rubber diaphragm in. I am guessing that's not enough fluid but it wouldn't solve my current issues.

Thanks for the replys!
 
If there is nothing scribed on the inside of the metal reservoir then I would fill it maximum 2/3rds full. Any more than that and it will ooze out when you tighten the cap down.
I don't think filling it only half full is a factor in the problem you describe.
 
I recently was filling and bleeding the system for the hydraulic clutch on my 3C.  It was taking forever for the system to fill.
It has a Brembo master with the round plastic reservoir.  With help from this forum, I learned to make sure the lever, and therefore
the piston, is in the fully retracted position.  I had set the lever a bit closer to the bars with the adjustment screw.  Make sure the
adjustment screw is fully backed during the procedure.  Filling and bleeding proceeded nicely afterwards. 

 
All of this theory about cable-tying the lever or putting rubber bands on it overnight reveals a mystifying lack of understanding of the (reasonably simple) hydraulic system. If doing such things has actually worked for you, then it was more by accident than design.

Hydraulic systems are not complicated. Tying levers overnight is about as useful as sacrificing virgins or dancing naked widdershins around a yew tree.

Here's a few basic tips:

1. Holding the brake lever in closes off the pressure relief orifice in the master cylinder. There's no way air can escape from the system unless you have dodgy master cylinder seals. This is not a method for bleeding hydraulic systems!

2. Speed bleeder gadgets are nothing more than a non-return valve that attaches to the bleed nipple. It allows flow out of the bleed nipple, but not back in. When you press the brake lever, it forces fluid (and any entrained air) out  of the bleed nipple. When you release the brake lever, the valve prevents air being sucked back in through the bleed nipple. You can do exactly the same thing by closing the nipple before you release the brake lever. A wee bit of coordination between pumping the lever and opening/closing the bleed nipple will avoid the need for any speed bleeder gadgets. They're more useful for bleeding car brakes when you can't reach the bleed nipple while pumping the brakes.

3. Gravity is your friend. Bubbles in fluid systems tend to rise to the top. If you can configure your system so bleed points are at the top, then you're making life easier for yourself. Note that bleed points are not necessarily where bleed nipples are fitted. Look at your system. The highest point might be nowhere near a bleed nipple. You can bleed a system by cracking a banjo joint just as well as opening a nipple. Just have some rags around to catch the inevitable brake fluid leakage.

4. Whenever you use a bleed nipple, attach a clear hose to it and look for bubbles as you bleed. Cessation of bubbles escaping is a good thing. This is brake bleeding elementary class. Needs no further explanation unless you're a moron. I  that case, take your bike to someone else to fix.

5 On the subject of bubbles, getting rid of them is good. If you see bubbles coming out of a bleed hose or percolating up through the M/C reservoir, be happy. Keep doing whatever you're doing until there are no more bubbles  :D

6. Braided lines? Yes, No? They don't make a whole world of difference for general road riding, but they do improve the transmission of brake lever effort to the slave cylinder. You might notice the difference when riding, but you might not. Depends on how fiercely you use your brakes. But if you're doing a brake refurbish, the old rubber lines well beyond their use-by date, so get rid of them and update to braided. There's an advantage to be gained and no disadvantage. You probably won't find anyone making non-braided hoses these days anyway.

 
Any still-fitted original hoses are well past their best now.
I just replaced a set on an RGS.
The lever travel was more than I like and in part this was due to the hoses expanding under pressure. You could feel it if you held one when you pumped the brake lever.
Steel braided hoses eliminate this.
 
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