The Atlas cable I got from Andy didn't come from Venhills. I forgot where he got it made. Unless you have the original cable to copy, it's very hard to describe the specs to get one made, apparently. Stupid me would have thought expressing the length of the inner and outer might be enough, but nipple size and outer sheath diameter, where it fits the upper adjuster and in the case of an Atlas Clutch, the cable wire diameter matter as well as said inner cable must fit through that removable lower nipple. Atlas clutch cables also have a heat-resistant outer sheath over the usual outer bit as they run close to the bike's headers. So save your old broken cable if you're having one made, off-the-shelf Atlas, you're joking.
Can I ride on a frayed clutch cable?
- Thread starter general_piffle
- Start date
general_piffle
Senior member
- Location
- London/Hampshire
Why do you say that Clem, I thought Venhill had a good reputation?
Who would you recommend as an alternative to supply cables?
a14rgs
Hero member
- Location
- Wiltshire, UK
JJ Cables.
Great if you can provide an old cable to use as a template, but otherwise a diagram and/or detailed explanation will do nicely.
Well priced and a quick turnaround.
Lots of UK Laverda owners use them
🏍
piranha-bro2
Hero member
- Location
- Melbourne
Do a search. Clem has gone into detail on the woes of trying to get a decent cable from Venhill.
I use second hand R1 Yamaha clutch cables, combined with an extended lever at the engine. Super quality and looks to me like it'll last a very long time. Not bad for AUD$20. Not for everyone, as requires a few mods: change M8 x 1mm to M8 x 1.25 at the gearbox (easy if you have the extended lever, permanent mod if you tap or recoil the casing), handlebar lever nipple is smaller than std Laverda (I use an R1 clutch lever anyway), and inner length is a tad long (I use a spacer at the bar adjuster). Lubed with silicone using a ProMotion cable oiler tool (excellent kit) I have a very light smooth clutch action.
Dellortoman
Hero member
- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
There used to be a local cable guy in the Hobart area who made all sorts of cables to order. He did good work. I took a couple of cables in for him to copy. He said to come back in a week to get the new cables. When he still hadn't done them 6 weeks later I had the temerity to complain about him not delivering. I said I could have got new ones from overseas in less time. He chucked my old cables back at me, threw me out of his shop and told me to never come back. I never did. I bought the tools to make my own cables.
I actually think he was starting to lose the plot mentally. He used to be a nice guy and easy to work with, but he started to go a bit nuts in his later years. He was giving all his customers a hard time. Not long after my argument with him the business closed down.
I actually think he was starting to lose the plot mentally. He used to be a nice guy and easy to work with, but he started to go a bit nuts in his later years. He was giving all his customers a hard time. Not long after my argument with him the business closed down.
piranha-bro2
Hero member
- Location
- Melbourne
Had a similar experience many years ago with a machinist. All I wanted was the points cam machined down on an SF advance unit so i could Loctite 680 an electronic trigger from a Suzuki onto it. What are we talking? 5 minute job?
6 weeks later i go in it's still sitting on the front bench where I left it - untouched. noone came out so i simply picked it up and walked out. Bloke came out abusing me ... probably fair enough, as it wasn't my place to walk out with anything from his premises, but I told him how pissed off I was and asked why he didn't simply tell me he had too much on or call me and say he couldn't do it due to whatever circumstances. Don't think he was in biz much longer either, Cam.
6 weeks later i go in it's still sitting on the front bench where I left it - untouched. noone came out so i simply picked it up and walked out. Bloke came out abusing me ... probably fair enough, as it wasn't my place to walk out with anything from his premises, but I told him how pissed off I was and asked why he didn't simply tell me he had too much on or call me and say he couldn't do it due to whatever circumstances. Don't think he was in biz much longer either, Cam.
Rob
Hero member
- Location
- Midlands, UK
Last time I used JJ Cables they needed the threaded adjuster off an old clutch cable to use on their new item.JJ Cables.
Great if you can provide an old cable to use as a template, but otherwise a diagram and/or detailed explanation will do nicely.
Well priced and a quick turnaround.
Lots of UK Laverda owners use them
They sound like the company that Andy used to supply my wrong Atlas clutch cable, it came with 2 fixed nipples. It should have had one nipple and a removable lower nipple with a grub screw. Maybe Zanes use clutch cables with 2 fixed nipples. Don't know. The actual cable itself looked pretty good, just not usable for me. Again, my takeaway, the easiest way to not go down a deep, dark rabbit hole is to hopefully give them an old, correct cable to copy and maybe rob parts off. And even then, expect issues.
CLEMTOG
Hero member
as he said, do a search for my tale re Venhill speedo cables and then go for Hamish (The Sock's) tale about multiple clutch cables. I now use JJ cables and have been very pleased, including a throttle cable (and a spare) for a Chinese made ground tiller, no spares available, got JJ to make up, well pleased. Thank you Pirana man.
CLEM
CLEM
piranha-bro2
Hero member
- Location
- Melbourne
Cheers, Clem. Vince, a grub screw on a cable sounds horrendous to me. Surely if you know the correct inner and outer lengths you can have a cable with fixed ends?
No. Not in this case. The cable runs down the single front frame rail and eases to the right and goes back through the engine via a hole no nipple could pass through. Somewhere there is where the outer stops and the inner continues to the clutch fork The clutch fork is under the engine and has the bear cable pass through were the completely separate nipple is slide on and nipped up by said grub screw. Never seen another like it, other than the Bonnet cable on my old HQ Holden. I am amazed it works considering the tension that is needed and how careful you need to be to snug up the screw and not crimp the strands of the cable. According to Piet, it's typical of all 4 valve engines. BTW, it's hard to exactly see some of this being under the bike and enclosed, but from what I can see that's it. Maybe why Zanes went Hydro.
piranha-bro2
Hero member
- Location
- Melbourne
Crimping is WAY stronger than using a grub screw (I've seen it on massive suspension bridges). But once crimped it can only be reused if the inner can be slipped through a spotted retainer/adjuster. In a pos as described by Vince it couldn't be reused without cutting.
Andy
Hero member
- Location
- Auckland, roughly
And yet Venhill are supplied worldwide via a range of vendors.
Perhaps a case of the marketing being better than the physical attributes.
Another meaning for the idiom "The pen is mightier than the sword"?
Perhaps a case of the marketing being better than the physical attributes.
Another meaning for the idiom "The pen is mightier than the sword"?
CLEMTOG
Hero member
I gave them every possible chance, they took my money, lots of it, even for correcting their own mistakes, and delivered absolutely diddly squat, plus the women in the front office must have all gone to "lets be toxic school" and get regularly refreshed on that one, sour old pussies does not do it justice, for chrissake I am a customer, I pay your wages, at least smile and be pleasant and dont talk bullshit, let the man on the bench do that, he is very good at it. still feels painfull.
CLEM
CLEM
The Sock
Hero member
- Location
- London, England
In 2019, I approached Venhill with regard to their clutch cables for my Laverda.
I had gone through a number of them in a relatively short space of time. The final "standard" one lasting less than two weeks!
I tried their "Heavy Duty" ones which were, frankly, s**t. About the same cable thickness as my rear brake cable, it was impossible to release the clutch smoothly. As the tension was reduced, the cable whipped as it relaxed. Try using a normal clutch cable to operate the throttle and you'll get an idea of how useless they were, 630 chains come to mind.
I figured that Venhill deserved to be told. There's a convention, in England at least, of not giving feedback, eg.:
Sitting in a restaurant, at a table with others, faced with food that, somehow, is simultaneously both uncooked and burnt.
“This is dreadful!”
“ Whose idea was it to come here?”
“School dinners were ‘Haute cuisine’ compared to this!”
“Never coming here, again.”
The waiter approaches, “Is everything to your satisfaction?”
“Oh! Yes, lovely. We were just saying, weren’t we ...”
It’s the principal reason there are so many crap eateries in the UK.
If you don’t let them know that things are wrong, how are they supposed to fix them?
It was with that thought in mind, having recently seen some complaints on the interweb about others having suffered a few Venhill clutch cable failures, as I had myself, that I decided it was time to pop down to Dorking and have a word with them.
I could not have asked for better treatment.
Venhill have been in business for almost fifty years supplying cables and hydraulic lines for modern, classic and vintage motorbikes (on and off-road), quads, cars and karts, plus a wide range of domestic and industrial applications.
They’re not riding Laverdas on a regular basis though, so without Feedback how are they to know that a change to the way a nipple is fixed to the cable might be a retrograde step?
I took with me one of my thirty year old spare cables. One that had lasted long enough that the inner cable had started to fray which was why it had been retired to the ‘get you home’ spare.
When we examined it, in comparison, to my failed, old Venhill ones, there were two obvious differences: the trumpet nipple was considerably larger and longer which requires a suitable barrel nipple; it had been swaged, not soldered. Venhill have the equipment, on hand, to fix both ways and they kindly made me up a new cable, on the spot.
Because cables, like chains, have improved over the years the diameters required have reduced. This affects the way the cable lies and therefore the length for it to sit comfortably on the bike. Also since Venhill had built their cables based on an old, stretched one, the inner was longer than necessary, requiring a too long adjuster, at the bottom end, on which almost all the adjustment was used up.
On a later visit, some amendments were made and three cables were made up for me to test. Unfortunately they had not been able to source a suitable trumpet nipple which would replicate the OEM cable and reverted to a birdcaged and soldered top lever end.
Sadly, I must report that not one of them lasted even 5,000 miles, against Venhill's own target of 10,000 miles, as an acceptable service life. On one, they replaced the inner cable. That one lasted 1,400 miles!
Regrettably, I must conclude that they are not fit for purpose on my Laverda.
I currently have one of Andy Wagner's on the bike and I'll see how it fares. Though the availability of these, from Andy, may not be a long term solution given Andy's wish to retire.
I better order a couple of spare ones to see me through to the future.
I had gone through a number of them in a relatively short space of time. The final "standard" one lasting less than two weeks!
I tried their "Heavy Duty" ones which were, frankly, s**t. About the same cable thickness as my rear brake cable, it was impossible to release the clutch smoothly. As the tension was reduced, the cable whipped as it relaxed. Try using a normal clutch cable to operate the throttle and you'll get an idea of how useless they were, 630 chains come to mind.
I figured that Venhill deserved to be told. There's a convention, in England at least, of not giving feedback, eg.:
Sitting in a restaurant, at a table with others, faced with food that, somehow, is simultaneously both uncooked and burnt.
“This is dreadful!”
“ Whose idea was it to come here?”
“School dinners were ‘Haute cuisine’ compared to this!”
“Never coming here, again.”
The waiter approaches, “Is everything to your satisfaction?”
“Oh! Yes, lovely. We were just saying, weren’t we ...”
It’s the principal reason there are so many crap eateries in the UK.
If you don’t let them know that things are wrong, how are they supposed to fix them?
It was with that thought in mind, having recently seen some complaints on the interweb about others having suffered a few Venhill clutch cable failures, as I had myself, that I decided it was time to pop down to Dorking and have a word with them.
I could not have asked for better treatment.
Venhill have been in business for almost fifty years supplying cables and hydraulic lines for modern, classic and vintage motorbikes (on and off-road), quads, cars and karts, plus a wide range of domestic and industrial applications.
They’re not riding Laverdas on a regular basis though, so without Feedback how are they to know that a change to the way a nipple is fixed to the cable might be a retrograde step?
I took with me one of my thirty year old spare cables. One that had lasted long enough that the inner cable had started to fray which was why it had been retired to the ‘get you home’ spare.
When we examined it, in comparison, to my failed, old Venhill ones, there were two obvious differences: the trumpet nipple was considerably larger and longer which requires a suitable barrel nipple; it had been swaged, not soldered. Venhill have the equipment, on hand, to fix both ways and they kindly made me up a new cable, on the spot.
Because cables, like chains, have improved over the years the diameters required have reduced. This affects the way the cable lies and therefore the length for it to sit comfortably on the bike. Also since Venhill had built their cables based on an old, stretched one, the inner was longer than necessary, requiring a too long adjuster, at the bottom end, on which almost all the adjustment was used up.
On a later visit, some amendments were made and three cables were made up for me to test. Unfortunately they had not been able to source a suitable trumpet nipple which would replicate the OEM cable and reverted to a birdcaged and soldered top lever end.
Sadly, I must report that not one of them lasted even 5,000 miles, against Venhill's own target of 10,000 miles, as an acceptable service life. On one, they replaced the inner cable. That one lasted 1,400 miles!
Regrettably, I must conclude that they are not fit for purpose on my Laverda.
I currently have one of Andy Wagner's on the bike and I'll see how it fares. Though the availability of these, from Andy, may not be a long term solution given Andy's wish to retire.
I better order a couple of spare ones to see me through to the future.
Exmoor beast
Hero member
- Location
- Minehead,Somerset, ENGLAND OF COURSE
Just to put my two- penneth in, I use JJ cables in my 750- all good - don’t bother making my own if I don’t have the parts.As standard cables go Harley - Davidson cables are exceptionally good, I wonder if you could source the base cable with the strand pattern that they use? Laverdas I have seen all seem to have worn levers where the nipple/ barrel sits, they wear egg shaped which causes the barrel to ratchet rather than roll. Can’t be rocket science, I’m bloody sure boats and tractors have cables that have a harder life.
general_piffle
Senior member
- Location
- London/Hampshire
Well... The cable now fitted is Venhill, because I bought x2 clutch cables from DAM Classic Racing in Oz, and when they arrived they're Venhill. It is what it is.
Schurminater
Hero member
- Location
- Surrey Hills
Don't worry I too am using a Venhill cable brought through DAM Classic Racing when I purchased the excellent easy clutch lever from them, made me laugh as they "Venhill" are just down the road from me and the cable went all the way to OZ and back again to be with me!
