Centre stand/Track stand/side stand dilemma

[JO55]

Dear all.

Happy, whatever time of year we are in!? The Christmas/New Year limbo has given me the chance ponder my stand options - granted, first world issues, so please excuse me...

Currently, I have on my triple, the excellent side stand (SS) conversion that I purchased from Joe with the Kawasaki stand. As anyone who has looked into it, or fitted one will know, in order to use the centre stand (CS) in conjunction, you need to cut a section from the CS activating tang (if that's what it's called?). I'm reluctant, so not done this as yet, which means the only way it can be used is by putting the bike on the CS, putting down the SS, and then taking the bike off the CS to use the SS. Obviously, this is a massive faff which negates the whole point of SS in the first place!

I was wondering if ;

Option 1 - Anyone has experience of using the CS with the cut down tang, given it's a fair heft to get it on with a full tang. Does it still operate OK and how is it to live with?

Option 2 - Has anyone got experience of using track type stands with bobbins. I'm thinking this could work well as I'm only likely to need the CS advantage (ie, removing wheel etc) in the garage. If so, how has this worked, and are there any suggestions on the availability and suitable mounting points of bobbins?

Apologies if this has been covered previously, but I could find anything when I searched.

Thanks in advance,

Julian

 

[Paul Marx]

Dear all.

Happy, whatever time of year we are in!? The Christmas/New Year limbo has given me the chance ponder my stand options - granted, first world issues, so please excuse me...

Currently, I have on my triple, the excellent side stand (SS) conversion that I purchased from Joe with the Kawasaki stand. As anyone who has looked into it, or fitted one will know, in order to use the centre stand (CS) in conjunction, you need to cut a section from the CS activating tang (if that's what it's called?). I'm reluctant, so not done this as yet, which means the only way it can be used is by putting the bike on the CS, putting down the SS, and then taking the bike off the CS to use the SS. Obviously, this is a massive faff which negates the whole point of SS in the first place!

I was wondering if ;

Option 1 - Anyone has experience of using the CS with the cut down tang, given it's a fair heft to get it on with a full tang. Does it still operate OK and how is it to live with?

Option 2 - Has anyone got experience of using track type stands with bobbins. I'm thinking this could work well as I'm only likely to need the CS advantage (ie, removing wheel etc) in the garage. If so, how has this worked, and are there any suggestions on the availability and suitable mounting points of bobbins?

Apologies if this has been covered previously, but I could find anything when I searched.

Thanks in advance,

Julian

I have the Kawasaki side stand conversion and an extra plate that moves the stand back a few centimetres, avoids cutting the centre stand tang.

There are also track stands that don't need bobbins, they slide under the swing arm.

Paul

 

[sfcpiet]

If your centre stand requires a "fair heft" to deploy, there's something wrong with it. Generally, it only requires some body weight on the tang and a light pull. Ceriani-equipped triples have a slight advantage over Marzocchi equipped, frame/stand geometry is slightly better, but both work very well when compared to contemporary competition. Bent stands or worn/loose mounting screws and bushes are the usual culprits causing heavy lifting. Removing part of the tang makes using the stand really difficult.

Paddock rear stands are not for the faint-hearted when using single handed. It's a big difference slipping a stand under a 125 racing lightweight or trying to juggle and heave a 250kg blob of steel and alloy with a fairly high CoG. You need to be VERY confident using these with a triple on your own, or you quickly get used to nasty crunching noises! Fitting bobbins on the stock swinger isn't that easy, stands that slip under the arms are yet a bit more difficult to handle.

piet

 

[JO55]

I have the Kawasaki side stand conversion and an extra plate that moves the stand back a few centimetres, avoids cutting the centre stand tang.

There are also track stands that don't need bobbins, they slide under the swing arm.

Paul

Thanks Paul.
That sounds like a decent solution. Its a shame, because it fits really neatly as is barring the tang issue. It would be great to see a picture of your plate fitted to the bike if you had one?
Cheers,
Julian

 

[JO55]

If your centre stand requires a "fair heft" to deploy, there's something wrong with it. Generally, it only requires some body weight on the tang and a light pull. Ceriani-equipped triples have a slight advantage over Marzocchi equipped, frame/stand geometry is slightly better, but both work very well when compared to contemporary competition. Bent stands or worn/loose mounting screws and bushes are the usual culprits causing heavy lifting. Removing part of the tang makes using the stand really difficult.

Paddock rear stands are not for the faint-hearted when using single handed. It's a big difference slipping a stand under a 125 racing lightweight or trying to juggle and heave a 250kg blob of steel and alloy with a fairly high CoG. You need to be VERY confident using these with a triple on your own, or you quickly get used to nasty crunching noises! Fitting bobbins on the stock swinger isn't that easy, stands that slip under the arms are yet a bit more difficult to handle.

piet

Thanks Piet.
It's not overly tricky to deploy, fairly similar to my Suzuki GS1000 really. Both are fairly large lumps requiring a degree of man handling to get them onto the stand - made worse by a very slight camber outside my house that leans away from the tang side as you pull back, giving a momentary heart in the mouth moment every time you do it! I'd imagined that without the length of the tang to act as a lever, it could be extremely difficult to use. This you have confirmed.

I'd not actually considered your point about the paddock stand. Now you mention it, the thought of holding the bike up by the grab rail at arms length, whilst attempting to push down on the handle of the paddock stand doesn't sound like much fun!

Thanks for enlightening me.

Julian

 

[Paul Marx]

Thanks Paul.
That sounds like a decent solution. Its a shame, because it fits really neatly as is barring the tang issue. It would be great to see a picture of your plate fitted to the bike if you had one?
Cheers,
Julian

Ecco.
Not certain it could be mounted with rear sets though.
Paul

 

[sfcpiet]

Thanks Piet.
It's not overly tricky to deploy, fairly similar to my Suzuki GS1000 really. Both are fairly large lumps requiring a degree of man handling to get them onto the stand - made worse by a very slight camber outside my house that leans away from the tang side as you pull back, giving a momentary heart in the mouth moment every time you do it! I'd imagined that without the length of the tang to act as a lever, it could be extremely difficult to use. This you have confirmed.

I'd not actually considered your point about the paddock stand. Now you mention it, the thought of holding the bike up by the grab rail at arms length, whilst attempting to push down on the handle of the paddock stand doesn't sound like much fun!

Thanks for enlightening me.

Julian

Julian,

Had a GS 750 Suzuki in the shop recently, it was a right pig to heave on the stand, despite having an almost foot-long deployment lever! The stand was in good mechanical order, neither worn nor bent. Being used to Laverda centre stands, we checked the Suzuki thoroughly before letting it loose again. At least 3 leagues beneath the Laverda stand, sorry. Absolutely hated pushing that bike in and out in the mornings and evenings. The OCT yard is fairly cramped during the season, wherever possible, bikes were placed on their centre stands to save a bit of space.

Incorrect, as in too short, rear shocks also have an enormous influence on stand actuation.

piet

 

[JO55]

Ecco.
Not certain it could be mounted with rear sets though.
Paul

Thanks Paul.
Looks like there’s fair spacing out of it too. I’d imagine the dimensions need to be quite carefully worked out to provide clearance of the exhausts without having it hanging out to the side too much.

Here is mine - no rear sets

Thanks,
Julian

 

[JO55]

Julian,

Had a GS 750 Suzuki in the shop recently, it was a right pig to heave on the stand, despite having an almost foot-long deployment lever! The stand was in good mechanical order, neither worn nor bent. Being used to Laverda centre stands, we checked the Suzuki thoroughly before letting it loose again. At least 3 leagues beneath the Laverda stand, sorry. Absolutely hated pushing that bike in and out in the mornings and evenings. The OCT yard is fairly cramped during the season, wherever possible, bikes were placed on their centre stands to save a bit of space.

Incorrect, as in too short, rear shocks also have an enormous influence on stand actuation.

piet

Piet,

Agreed, shock length has a huge effect. I spent some time getting my GS to handle/steer as I wanted. This resulted in heavier springs and eye to eye length 15mm longer than standard. Getting the bike on the stand was an unexpected bonus to go with the handling!

As an aside, trying to manhandle the GS and Jota from my garage, through a deep gravel drive is always a challenge. I always thought the GS was a lump of a bike (it even became an amusing unit of measurement among my friends, as in "how many GS's does that weigh?") until I got a Laverda triple. A whole new level of unwieldiness to get out of the garage!

Cheers,

Julian

 

[Paul Marx]

Thanks Paul.
Looks like there’s fair spacing out of it too. I’d imagine the dimensions need to be quite carefully worked out to provide clearance of the exhausts without having it hanging out to the side too much.

Here is mine - no rear sets

Thanks,
Julian

I had no problem whatsoever with the exhaust. I should think that pushing the stand back moves it away from the silencers.
It does however require a shorter stand to avoid the bike being too upright, ZZR100 instead of 600, or vice versa.

 

[JO55]

I had no problem whatsoever with the exhaust. I should think that pushing the stand back moves it away from the silencers.
It does however require a shorter stand to avoid the bike being too upright, ZZR100 instead of 600, or vice versa.

Great, thanks Paul. I’ll look into it.

 

[Perry]

Going back to your option 1. I have a cut down tang on my CS and it doesn't cause any real problem. Perhaps slightly more fiddly to push down but you soon get used to it.

 

[78jotadave]

Ecco.
Not certain it could be mounted with rear sets though.
Paul

Thanks for sharing the pictures Paul I have been planning on doing exactly what you did and it works fine for you, that is great. For years I have only fitted the center stand when working on the bike, it will be nice to have the convenience of both. I love the sidestand setup it is so convenient.

 

[Rob]

There was a suggestion from Keith Nairn of LaverdaScozia to amend the adapter plate design to avoid the tangling of stands.
https://laverdaforum.com/xf/threads/89633/post-273867
Shame that idea wasn't adopted - it seems to do the same job of shifting the sidestand fixings rearwards as in Paul's photo but a rather more elegant solution IMHO.

 

[Paul Marx]

There was a suggestion from Keith Nairn of LaverdaScozia to amend the adapter plate design to avoid the tangling of stands.
https://laverdaforum.com/xf/threads/89633/post-273867
Shame that idea wasn't adopted - it seems to do the same job of shifting the sidestand fixings rearwards as in Paul's photo but a rather more elegant solution IMHO.

Much better but neither Keith, nor Joe whom I got the kit from went ahead.

Paul

 

[AJ]

I modified my Bushman bracket as Keith recommended. Works great with both stands without cutting center stand. I had purchased a center stand that had been cut down but didn't need it after modification was done. Cut down center stand was a PITA to use.

 

[martymoose]

No ability to move the SS rearwards on the 3C, as the CS tang is right there. My method of deployment, when fully laden with camping gear, etc, push CS down whilst sitting vertically, slide SS past the tang, hop off. Really easy, then you have options once standing beside the machine.

Second shot is 6 plug racer, no centre stand.

 

[Dellortoman]

I cut the tang off my centre stand and welded it back on forward of the side stand (or higher up the centre stand leg if you prefer to think of it that way) so both stands operate independently. The altered position of the foot tang makes no difference to deployment of the centre stand.

 

[Shajota]

No ability to move the SS rearwards on the 3C, as the CS tang is right there. My method of deployment, when fully laden with camping gear, etc, push CS down whilst sitting vertically, slide SS past the tang, hop off. Really easy, then you have options once standing beside the machine.

Second shot is 6 plug racer, no centre stand.

Ha ha, now c'mon Marty. I have seen you do this and agree you make it look "really easy", but a person who can walk under a wound down clothesline without bending and has the flexibility of lump of timber such as myself, would find it rather difficult!
In fact I wouldn't have a hope in hell of reaching down to deploy the sidestand

 

[Vince]

I have a short tang on my centre stand and it worked great, TILL I went from long Icon shocks, at least 15mm longer than standard 362mm, that had both wheels JUST touching down with the centrestand deployed to Stanard-length Nitron shocks that now have both wheels off the ground when the centrestand is deployed and that makes it a fair bit harder to heave up, not impossible but I doubt any 7 stone weakling would be getting it up, so to speak. I take a pretty full-on grunt to heave it up, that longer foot really does use a way better lever action.