veravista
Senior member
- Location
- Derbyshire
Mine obviously didn't! See photo...
Centre stand woes
- Thread starter AndyW
- Start date
Paddy said:Mines all dangly and hanging down now as well following large quantities of booze last night. The women says she will see if she can get it to stay up later....what we talking about anyway ?
They generally point towards the equator Paddy
(bolt)
chrisk
Hero member
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
Some of my yesterday was spent rehashing the SF stand. I set it up on the bench and was surprised how little spring tension was required to raise, and maintain erection. :-X
So a spring with a springiness issue could well be the cause.
So a spring with a springiness issue could well be the cause.
chrisk
Hero member
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
AndyW said:
Just leaves one other option: Something is wrong.
L
lemonjelly
Guest
lemonjelly said:
Thanks much wiser now
To wake up a thread from 2015, it's my turn to have centre stand woes.
My engine is out, so I thought I'd take a look. The stand lugs are close to parallel but not quite, so I'll sort that. The centre stand with bush and bolt seems fine (see photo) so the problem seems the be 12mm bolt which is free to slide about in the lug hole which is now about 17mm tall and 14mm wide (see photo).
I can't drill the lug-holes because the two lugs make it impossible to get a drill in there, so any suggestions (excluding a side stand) would be appreciated.
My engine is out, so I thought I'd take a look. The stand lugs are close to parallel but not quite, so I'll sort that. The centre stand with bush and bolt seems fine (see photo) so the problem seems the be 12mm bolt which is free to slide about in the lug hole which is now about 17mm tall and 14mm wide (see photo).
I can't drill the lug-holes because the two lugs make it impossible to get a drill in there, so any suggestions (excluding a side stand) would be appreciated.
Attachments
Just re-read my post and perhaps I wasn't clear. I was thinking of drilling out the lug holes to make them round again and able to accept a bush to sit alongside the existing bush in the stand itself, but I can't get in to drill it so that's not going to happen! Therefore I'm a bit stuck.
Thanks
Matt
Thanks
Matt
S
Smiddy
Guest
Get hold of an adjustable reamer, ream the buggers out till round and get a couple of oversized bushes made up. It won't be standard but it should last a couple of decades or 3..
You could also weld up the hole a bit & file to correct size.
You could also weld up the hole a bit & file to correct size.
Matt,
I think the knackered bores are only a small part of your problem. Judging from your pics, the whole lug seems a bit distorted/bent. The top of the lug "box" should be parallel to the frame rail along its whole length, not kinked up at the end. You need to address this issue as well, otherwise the stand will end up too far over-centre and both wheels will remain firmly on the deck.
Don't think you'll have enough room for a reamer.
To repair the holes, I'd go at them with a Dremel grinder and get them as round and as aligned as possible. Make some steel bushes to restore the 12mm ID and a tight fit in the lugs, weld them in place and all should be OK.
OCT has over-sized bushes to cater for worn stand bores, 18mm instead of 17mm OD. Ideally, the bushes should be held in place with a shanked bolt for a better fit in the frame bore.
Your frame and stand seem to be a prime example of decade-long neglect.
piet
I think the knackered bores are only a small part of your problem. Judging from your pics, the whole lug seems a bit distorted/bent. The top of the lug "box" should be parallel to the frame rail along its whole length, not kinked up at the end. You need to address this issue as well, otherwise the stand will end up too far over-centre and both wheels will remain firmly on the deck.
Don't think you'll have enough room for a reamer.
To repair the holes, I'd go at them with a Dremel grinder and get them as round and as aligned as possible. Make some steel bushes to restore the 12mm ID and a tight fit in the lugs, weld them in place and all should be OK.
OCT has over-sized bushes to cater for worn stand bores, 18mm instead of 17mm OD. Ideally, the bushes should be held in place with a shanked bolt for a better fit in the frame bore.
Your frame and stand seem to be a prime example of decade-long neglect.
piet
Dellortoman
Hero member
- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
Just following on from Dr Piet's diagnosis ...
I suspect the weld between bracket and frame has cracked to let it get that far out of position. The one on the other may be in a similar state.
Seeing as you'll need to apply heat to re-align and re-weld the frame bracket, you're going to be burning frame paint off anyway so you may as well weld up the bolt holes while you're at it. Then you can re-drill them to the correct diameter. Measure where the hole centres need to be before you lose them under weld metal.
I suspect the weld between bracket and frame has cracked to let it get that far out of position. The one on the other may be in a similar state.
Seeing as you'll need to apply heat to re-align and re-weld the frame bracket, you're going to be burning frame paint off anyway so you may as well weld up the bolt holes while you're at it. Then you can re-drill them to the correct diameter. Measure where the hole centres need to be before you lose them under weld metal.
Last night I checked out my options for reamers and it would be a struggle to get one in between the lugs.
Looking at the frame lugs, the left-hand lug is very different to the right hand lug in that the top is aligned with the frame and generally appears more 'square'. The right hand lug (the one in the photo) looks like the back edge is bent down, possibly from somebody sitting on the bike on the stand. The welds are fine. So I'll square it up and then address the problem with the holes.
Which leaves me back with my original problem!
On my modern Guzzi, the stand is bolted directly to the frame (through a bush in the stand) and the bolt runs from 'outside' the stand in to the frame. This means the bush is clamped tightly to the frame so that the stand simply pivots around the bush. On the Laverda there is potential movement by the bolt/bush in the stand and then again in the bolt/lug. I can't copy the Guzzi because the bottom frame rail means the bolt has to go in from the 'inside' (from the centre of the bike outward). So I'd thought of welding a nut (maybe something more elegant) onto the lug, then bolt through toward the outside. This would mean that the lug/bolt movement and wear is eliminated and I can position the bolt to the bottom of the lug hole which shouldn't have worn much over the years, so I should be back at a standard position. Then the stand just rotates on the one bush and should never move. See photo of what I'm thinking.
I'm concerned it's not a very pretty solution, but if it keeps the bike upright it should at least be a robust and accurate way to solve the problem. What do you think?
Looking at the frame lugs, the left-hand lug is very different to the right hand lug in that the top is aligned with the frame and generally appears more 'square'. The right hand lug (the one in the photo) looks like the back edge is bent down, possibly from somebody sitting on the bike on the stand. The welds are fine. So I'll square it up and then address the problem with the holes.
Which leaves me back with my original problem!
On my modern Guzzi, the stand is bolted directly to the frame (through a bush in the stand) and the bolt runs from 'outside' the stand in to the frame. This means the bush is clamped tightly to the frame so that the stand simply pivots around the bush. On the Laverda there is potential movement by the bolt/bush in the stand and then again in the bolt/lug. I can't copy the Guzzi because the bottom frame rail means the bolt has to go in from the 'inside' (from the centre of the bike outward). So I'd thought of welding a nut (maybe something more elegant) onto the lug, then bolt through toward the outside. This would mean that the lug/bolt movement and wear is eliminated and I can position the bolt to the bottom of the lug hole which shouldn't have worn much over the years, so I should be back at a standard position. Then the stand just rotates on the one bush and should never move. See photo of what I'm thinking.
I'm concerned it's not a very pretty solution, but if it keeps the bike upright it should at least be a robust and accurate way to solve the problem. What do you think?
Attachments
Various said:
Matt,
The Laverda system works just like the Guzzi, the bush is securely bolted to the frame and the stand swivels on the bush. The bolt needs to go in from the inside, the nut is between frame rail and stand. A bit akward to fit, but works well if looked after.
The holes in the frame wear if a loose mounting bolt isn't attended to, the leverage increases to the point that the frame lug is distorted when the stand is deployed. It also makes it more difficult to heave the bike up, resulting in a further jolt at the lug, bending it ever more. Draping a scantily clad lady on the bike while on the centre stand doesn't help things either...
The lug will carry the bikes' weight with a bit of baggage, but will give up if asked to handle more. I've seen people sitting on their bike and rocking to and fro, may as well throw the thing under a Caterpillar, that bends it a lot quicker. :
piet
Interesting hypothesis, what about a right angle drill and a shortened drill bit am thinking it just might work.sfcpiet said:
( mechanic's logic coming into play after dealing with years of broken header bolts and such...)
I actually turned up a set of new bushes, from self lubricating bronze for the Cico now that I left shouldered that damn sidestand and went back to stock centre stand set up, not only was it a PITA to get onto centre with the reworked foot...I also didnt want Cosi calling me gay so best thing I ever did was getting rid of the stupid cum and suck me side stand thingy...
Now it works like God ( oops Massimo ) intended it too again. phew.
Whilst the club has a shit load of stainless springs in stock I opted for some of Phil's awesomely good zinc plated jobbies... real nice piece of work.
Andy your spring was shot when we refitted it here if I remember. 3C and Jota both single spring and work just fine, fix your bushers and make sure no drag then new spring should be fine. ( go with Phil's its super heavy duty piece of kit )
D
Davo
Guest
sfcpiet said:
Except a lot better than the Goose. Getting the Le Mans onto the centre stand is heavy lifting whereas I can put the Laverda up by standing on the tang as I dismount.