Cylinder Bores

Willz900 said:
This is the U.K and it's more often cold / wet /damp and I think that Powder Coat is tougher than paint, for a motorcycle here, I think it ideal.  :)
Fair call can remember my time there now come to think of it

I had my Z1 Frame and all the other Black painted parts Powder Coated when I bought it 13 years ago and it hasn't got a mark on it.

But I will take the advice on the engine, although the Barrels don't seem to want to move.

Museum,? not at the moment, just packed all the bit's into boxes and crates and hope I can remember how to put it all together again.  :D
A lot of us on here have been there done that so can guide you through it
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Try turning the engine over a tad whilst holding the cam chain to avoid it jamming. If the barrels still dont move you might need to a little persuasion as might be stuck on the gasket have patience my friend and avoid using force on the fins or gouging the mating surfaces ..
 
From an old timer - If them cylinders are original, they don't look that bad.

If the pistons are true: Concentrating on the ring lands -  Forget about piston to bore clearance, unless it goes above .005", I would hone the cylinders with a 280 grit stone to about .003" and file a set of .030" rings to fit the gap, finishing off with a 340 stone lapped at 45 degrees, concentrating on ridding the Hour Glass Shaped Bore that cause the Rings to FLUTTER.

You need experience on how to hone using old rings with a feeler gauge to gap over sized rings on a kitchen table with a variable speed 3/8 th's drill and true the Bore.

Piston Slap is irrelevant unless you go over .005" and then your looking at an over bore with larger pistons.

If you are interested on how to hone and fit rings on your kitchen table notify me at  Tiny.Mud@gmail.com .

I will give you my phone# and we will talk.

My Key Board is fucked.
 
Seal the Combustion Chamber is Power - The rest is up to your ability - Mercerizes;, Jags, Austin Martins, Triumph (TR6's), Volvo's, Jap Crowns. Loved them rides. Even an MG or an Austin Minni.

For two wheelies, that's why I kept a Breganzie.

Sorry Red, I can get a few more thousand rounds outta of a Breganzie then you.

No disrespect toward machinists , when it comes to cylinder bore, valve and piston maintenance on a kitchen table.
 
Willz900 said:
Hi Guys,
            Thanks for all your comments.

I have opted for the Powder Coating and found a silver that is very close to the original, with a bit more sparkle.

If the bike had not already had a nice 'new' paint job and was original I might have left the Frame alone even with the damage, but it's the only thing that needs doing and looks worse than in the photo's.

I will be looking into the Engine next week.

I still can't believe that I bought it two weeks ago and now it's in bits. :(
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Agree with comments here re who is doing the powder coating and colour matching. Local bloke here restores a lot of Brit (& Jap) bikes and gets frames powder coated - the coating looks great but black is an easy colour match!!. I used same bloke, picked the colour from his colour chart which looked like Jota silver (with a bit of sparkle). The job is a good one but I am not overly happy with colour. It ended up quite grey with sparkly flecks throughout. Your comment above caught my eye.........................
 
Laverda SF said:
Seal the Combustion Chamber is Power - The rest is up to your ability - Mercerizes;, Jags, Austin Martins, Triumph (TR6's), Volvo's, Jap Crowns. Loved them rides. Even an MG or an Austin Minni.

For two wheelies, that's why I kept a Breganzie.

Sorry Red, I can get a few more thousand rounds outta of a Breganzie then you.

No disrespect toward machinists , when it comes to cylinder bore, valve and piston maintenance on a kitchen table.
Click to expand...

I disagree strongly Ron - when Red gives advice, I take it on board.  Red has built more of these engines than most and is considered by many to be an authority. 

Yogi
 
Laverda SF said:
From an old timer - If them cylinders are original, they don't look that bad.

If the pistons are true: Concentrating on the ring lands -  Forget about piston to bore clearance, unless it goes above .05", I would hone the cylinders with a 280 grit stone to about .03" or perhaps .05" and file a set of .030" rings to fit the gap, finishing off with a 340 stone lapped at 45 degrees, concentrating on ridding the Hour Glass Shaped Bore that cause the Rings to FLUTTER.

You need experience on how to hone using old rings with a feeler gauge to gap over sized rings on a kitchen table with a variable speed 3/8 th's drill and true the Bore.

Piston Slap is irrelevant unless you go over .050" and then your looking at an over bore with larger pistons.

If you are interested on how to hone and fit rings on your kitchen table notify me at  Tiny.Mud@gmail.com .

I will give you my phone# and we will talk.

My Key Board is fucked.
Click to expand...

C'mon Ron,

You "hone" your barrels on the kitchen table and expect them to be straight and true?  You gotta be jokin'.

50 thou piston clearance will have any engine sounding like a rock crusher in action.

There's more fucked than just your keyboard... :D

piet
 
fixed that  Piet should have been .005"  max piston to cylinder bore .                             
 
I have seen the work the Powder Coaters do and trust that it will be a good job, I will post some photo's when I get the Frame back in a couple of weeks.

I think I will have to send Barrels and Pistons off the Keith as he is doing the head that way I can be sure that it will all be good when the Motor goes back in the Frame.

I will post some photo's of the Pistons and Liners when I can get the rest of the motor apart.

I had already tried turning it over but barrels are stuck tight.
 
Give the barrels a gentle knock from the front/rear with a soft mallet to break the base gasket seal while trying not to break any fins.  Levering often ends in shambles...

Stubborn barrels often turn out to have gasket goo applied at the base, completely unnecessary.  A light greasing of both mating surfaces upon reassembly will aid the next removal.

piet
 
Hi Piet,
            Thanks already tried that, I had to resort to getting two pieces of timber one thin piece of oak over the starter motor and under the Barrels and a thick piece of pine over engine case and gently levered the Barrels up, done.  :D

I will post some photo's tomorrow.

                                Thanks for everyone's input.  Will.
 
Here's the photo's of the Barrels and Pistons now that I have them off and I'm glad that I did as they look worse than the previous photo's and look like they need some attention.

I will get them in a box this afternoon and get them off to Keith to get some TLC.  :)

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://s540.photobucket.com/user/willjanuk/embed/slideshow/Cylinder%20Barrels%20and%20Pistons"></iframe>
 
Looks like at least 2 rods are not straight, no carbon build-up on one side of the top land of the pistons.  Have Keefy check the crank while he's at it!

piet
 
Hey Will
If you copy your IMG link from Photodump and paste it here you get a photo, like the following

Tough luck on your purchase, if it is any consolation I do know of a worse case, so called excellent 81 Jota bought out of the UK and imported to Aussie, new owner has pretty well replaced 1/2 the bike by now and we have also done his engine, had spun little ends, bent conrods, valve shims less then 1.5mm, etc

 
After reading that I am really pissed off and want to :'(

It would have been easier to send him the whole bike rather than sending it to him in bits.  :(

And if things couldn't get any worse the clutch has just gone in my car. >:(
 
I think I'd be taking it back to whence it came, supported by some no-nonsense mates to 'encourage' the seller to give you your money back >:(
 
Willz900 said:
After reading that I am really pissed off and want to :'(

It would have been easier to send him the whole bike rather than sending it to him in bits.  :(

And if things couldn't get any worse the clutch has just gone in my car. >:(
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Quite common to find stuff like that, no fault of the PO.  Don't know how the rods were originally machined, reckon that would be the main cause of such balls ups.  Not entirely convinced that quality control was always top-rate at Breganze. 

Rectifying things like that help make a sweeter motor afterwards!

piet
 
This proves that,contrary to popular belief, you CAN polish a turd.
I bought an 82 Ducati 18 months ago,on recommendation of a so called Ducati expert.
The recommendation was " buy it now before someone else does".
It turned out, and was obvious, that the bike had been bush bashed and bodged by a farmer.
Everything was fucked on it and it was unrideable.
Very disappointing after paying a good price for it.
This "expert" was fooled by new paint on bodywork and wheels, a polished turd.
Many hours and dollars later, we are nearly there.
I paid 34k for a hot rod from Red, best thing is ----its all done and sorted.

 
As unhappy I am with what has happened with the bike I am trying be positive and think that it will all be alright after Keith has done his Magic on it.  8)

He has agreed that there is a problem with the rods, possibly due to hydraulic lock so with the help of Padlock I will be sending the rest of the motor up to him.

Its probably good that I didn't ride it too much before finding out that there was a problem otherwise the damage could have been worse.

Its good that you guys are out there to help otherwise I may have just got the head fixed and put it back together. ::)
                             
 
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