Formula 750 s

martymoose

martymoose

Hero member
Location
Sydney, Australia
Hi guys, need some help with servicing a 1999 formula 750s. Does anyone in oz stock an oil filter?  What oil do they take?  Sounds very rattly to me but I never heard one before. Only got 2900 km on it.

Cheers
Marty
 
I used 20/50 fully synthetic as recommended in the workshop manual.
It also recommends the following oil filter: Champion C302 but maybe you can use that number to find a local equivalent at your local motor factor.
 
Better off making up a blanking plate and running no filter as they restrict the flowI have some filters at home if you can wait that I'll never use won't bE home till the weekend, motul v300 is the gobut its expensive, PENRITE 10 tenths is the go, change every thousand ks
 
Marty if you go 10 10ths the best place to buy is the big car place in the main drag at Five Dock, $75 for 4 litres.There are a couple of types oil weights in the 10 10ths. Repco has it at $95 and more
 
Grant said:
I used 20/50 fully synthetic as recommended in the workshop manual.
Click to expand...

Personally, Marty, I prefer to follow Alto's recommendation: 20-60 (specifically Rock TRM).

Re. the oil filter, as per Cosi: probably best to ditch the filter.  This isn't 100% proven or accepted by everyone, but oil starvation due to the filter is what Geoff Baines (respected Laverda/Ducrappi company, used to race them here in the UK) reckoned contributed to big-end failures.

Excessive rattle could well be worn balance shafts (see next post).  That said, they are noisy POSs  ;).  Has the cam chain been replaced?  If what Andy Chainman says is right (and why wouldn't it be?), they're in risk of becoming No Longer Available (and  may be already - ?)

HTH

Craig
 
P.s  Another piece of advice from Alto.  Basic really, but ...

"Filling with oil
The oil level is with the bike vertical and the cap / dipstick resting on the top of the threads. Overfilling will cause leaks and crank case pressure.  The 3 ? litres is when the bike is fully dry.  You will not (unless you unscrew it) drain the oil cooler, so you won't get 3 ? litres in normally.  So check your levels."


P.p.s  And this for those pesky balance shafts (Piet may be along soon ...  :-*.  Actually, I can hear him running fast away in the opposite direction ... :P )

"The engine has a good balance factor and vibration is normally caused by wear on the keys on the crankshaft gears which drive the balancer shaft.  We change these keys as part of a service and is very quick and easy (approx 20 - 30 mins) and makes a big difference if, as is common, the key has worn.

Disassembly
? Remove the alternator cover.
? Rock the balancer shaft left and right.  If you have movement, the key has worn and needs replacing. (This is only a guide, not a final assessment.  The key may have a step worn into it - see below).
? Rock the alternator rotor.  Again, if you have movement, the key has worn and needs replacing.
? Remove the alternator rotor (left hand thread) and inspect inside to see if the rotor keyway is worn. This will also cause vibration.  We have exchange items with new keyways cut.
? Remove the starter clutch sprag assembly.
? Remove the balancer shaft gear and key. Inspection of the key may show a step.  This moves the balancer timing and causes vibes.

Reassembly
? Assemble new key and balancer drive gear.  Very important: make sure you align the timing marks on the gear and on it's mating gear on the balancer shaft
? Re-assemble the starter sprag clutch mechanism and spacers.
? Using a new key, re-assemble the alternator rotor.
? Use a NEW alternator crank nut.  Old ones come undone, even with Loctite.  They are cheap, so no excuses.
? Replace the alternator cover and gasket to finish."
 
Ventodue said:
P.s  Another piece of advice from Alto.  Basic really, but ...

"Filling with oil
The oil level is with the bike vertical and the cap / dipstick resting on the top of the threads. Overfilling will cause leaks and crank case pressure.  The 3 ? litres is when the bike is fully dry.  You will not (unless you unscrew it) drain the oil cooler, so you won't get 3 ? litres in normally.  So check your levels."


P.p.s  And this for those pesky balance shafts (Piet may be along soon ...  :-*.  Actually, I can hear him running fast away in the opposite direction ... :P )

"The engine has a good balance factor and vibration is normally caused by wear on the keys on the crankshaft gears which drive the balancer shaft.  We change these keys as part of a service and is very quick and easy (approx 20 - 30 mins) and makes a big difference if, as is common, the key has worn.

Disassembly
? Remove the alternator cover.
? Rock the balancer shaft left and right.  If you have movement, the key has worn and needs replacing. (This is only a guide, not a final assessment.  The key may have a step worn into it - see below).
? Rock the alternator rotor.  Again, if you have movement, the key has worn and needs replacing.
? Remove the alternator rotor (left hand thread) and inspect inside to see if the rotor keyway is worn. This will also cause vibration.  We have exchange items with new keyways cut.
? Remove the starter clutch sprag assembly.
? Remove the balancer shaft gear and key. Inspection of the key may show a step.  This moves the balancer timing and causes vibes.

Reassembly
? Assemble new key and balancer drive gear.  Very important: make sure you align the timing marks on the gear and on it's mating gear on the balancer shaft
? Re-assemble the starter sprag clutch mechanism and spacers.
? Using a new key, re-assemble the alternator rotor.
? Use a NEW alternator crank nut.  Old ones come undone, even with Loctite.  They are cheap, so no excuses.
? Replace the alternator cover and gasket to finish."
Click to expand...


They may have recognised the symptom, but don't offer a cure... bit half-hearted imho.  If it has come loose once, it will do it again if not attended to properly.

Yes, there is a fix, for once and for all.  Just not as simple as described.

piet
 
Hi Marty the advice to use TRM oil is correct don't use a filter try to locate the mesh type filter replacement which is a lot better OCT probably have them. Try to find out if the crank has been repaired by OCT or there was another German guy who did the same. I left mine I tried my hardest to stop the inevitable but it blew. Had OCT repair now almost bullet proof.
Chris
 
sfcpiet said:
They may have recognised the symptom, but don't offer a cure... bit half-hearted imho.  If it has come loose once, it will do it again if not attended to properly.  Yes, there is a fix, for once and for all.  Just not as simple as described.
Click to expand...

Ta Piet.

(Hope you don't mind me asking - I know how much you love these machines ...)

What's the cause?  What's the proper fix?

Ciao

Craig
 
Craig,

The proper fix is to modify the shaft so that the nut does the clamping of the gear/bobweight/shaft assembly.  The key is solely for location, not for the transmission of force/rotation.  Basic engineering... not THAT difficult to grasp. ::)

Simply swapping the woodruff key is just bodging.  Don't know how or why Zane ballsed it up, possibly a misinterpretation of tolerances.

piet
 
sfcpiet said:
The proper fix is to modify the shaft so that the nut does the clamping of the gear/bobweight/shaft assembly.  The key is solely for location, not for the transmission of force/rotation.  Basic engineering... not THAT difficult to grasp. ::)
Click to expand...

Piet

Do you have any diagrams, specs ect of the machining that needs to be done that you can post/send? I may as well do mine while they are out.

Regards, Greg
 
I'm running Penrite MC-4st20w50 in the 3CL's and the SFC4. I get a 20 litre from Repco for around $165au.

After seeing the amount of sludge in the filter of the SFC4 I will be running a filter. Whilst oil flow is a suggested issue, a 2 stroke runs quite well on 25/30:1. If oil flow is an issue, it is more about, in my mind, sufficient flow to and through the big ends to carry away the heat. The SFC4, which has been alledgedly "fixed", has more oil coolers than the other 668's we have.

On a hot day at Lakeside the SFC4 ran at about 95C. It only got hot when back into the pits, jumping up to about 120C before cooling down.

I don't think, on the liquid cooled 750, that heat issues will be the major issue it is on the air cooled engines.

Others may disagree, and that is their right...

Regards, Greg
 
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