Gear selector questions

aircooled1

aircooled1

New member
Location
Concord, CA USA
I'm the guy that got back to the 750SF1 after a year to find wouldn't shift up to 2nd due to Neutral switch interference because I had installed a new Neutral switch last year and somehow it reared its ugly brass head this year to far up or something. So... tomorrow I want to fine tune the shifting mechanism via the eccentric screw so shifts are smooth as possible. Then... tighten the eccentric locknut so it doesn't come loose. Question: Do you recommend Loctite Blue to keep it tight? My original problem with shifter was because it worked loose last year. Another question is I notice the spring for the gear selector seems to be pretty close to the selector arms when they move down and up and I'm worried the arms are going to hit the spring arm ends that rest on the part of the case that keep them spread and tought. Bending them out away from the bike by about 2mm would reduce that chance of them getting under foot of the shifting arm that has the arm curvature that grassp the gear selector pins on the rotating wheel. What thinks ye of these 2 ideas? Thanks from 90 degree N. Cal.

Jeremy + Team Franziskaner (at this point of relief over the darn Neutral switch)
 
See my post in the 'Lost first gear' thread above this one. I've suggested two very simple but effective ways of preventing the dreaded spring fouling problem. As for threadlocking - I personally wouldn't do it as you want adjustment to be fine tunable. If you tighten the locknut with reasonable torque there should be no loosening hapening. I use a flat sheet 13mm spanner that I've modified with a couple of bends to facilitate access to the locknut. To complement that I use a section of uneven L alu as a 'screwdriver' that works with a reference mark on the cover so I can see how far I'm adjusting and ensure the eccentric doesn't move while tightening the locknut.

Selector adjustiong tools.jpg
 
Andy Wagner suggested slightly bending the spring legs to move it out of the way in his manual, I tried it years ago but all that did was twist it off square.
 
No Loctite. The eccentric part should be positioned furthest away from the shifter pivot, this allows the spring to close fully against the dog of the shifter pawl plate, thus reducing slop in the lever.

If assembled correctly, no bending of the (correct) spring should be necessary.

piet
 
'Lessen the Loosen'

A little tip for the eccentric's locknut..... the alu casing material can be quite soft and the locknut can come loose as the case material slightly 'moves out of the way' under the nut.

So, whilst you are in there, fit a flange nut (face-to-case of course :) ) - spreading the load, lessening the loosening effect.

HTH, Paul
 
Last edited:
aircooled1 said:
I'm the guy that got back to the 750SF1 after a year to find wouldn't shift up to 2nd due to Neutral switch interference because I had installed a new Neutral switch last year and somehow it reared its ugly brass head this year to far up or something
Click to expand...
I think this is the first thing to solve (if not already done?!?)... You will need washers to adjust the Neutral Switch to the right position I think (Piet can explain better, as I haven't done that). If then shifting is still a problem, you can adjust it as told above.
 
Haggis said:
A good flange and tight nuts are nice to have, but in my personal experience, if one has an undersized bolt, things are still going to be too loose to deliver satisfaction. :)

Sorry, I had a 'Filthy Chris' moment :ROFLMAO: What came over me! Oh, there I go again...
Click to expand...
Def a bit of CK channelling going on there, Haggis!
 
I'm the guy that got back to the 750SF1 after a year to find wouldn't shift up to 2nd due to Neutral switch interference because I had installed a new Neutral switch last year and somehow it reared its ugly brass head this year to far up or something. So... tomorrow I want to fine tune the shifting mechanism via the eccentric screw so shifts are smooth as possible. Then... tighten the eccentric locknut so it doesn't come loose. Question: Do you recommend Loctite Blue to keep it tight? My original problem with shifter was because it worked loose last year. Another question is I notice the spring for the gear selector seems to be pretty close to the selector arms when they move down and up and I'm worried the arms are going to hit the spring arm ends that rest on the part of the case that keep them spread and tought. Bending them out away from the bike by about 2mm would reduce that chance of them getting under foot of the shifting arm that has the arm curvature that grassp the gear selector pins on the rotating wheel. What thinks ye of these 2 ideas? Thanks from 90 degree N. Cal.








On gear selector eccentric locking nut - shall I use Locktite Blue on it? Or not? Also thinking of bending selector spring.











My post to make on progress:


Thank you all for help on this. I have been working on the suggestions for a couple days as time allowed and have some progress to report. Firstly, Piranha - I admired your tool you had fabricated for eccentric nut adjustment and tried to make my own. But... alas it was not stout enough (it was a cheap tool to begin with that came with some furniture to assemble or something). So that was a no-go. My workaround was pretty simple. Just do without the special tool and extra steps to take the spring off and then the whole adjuster armature after deciding the new Eccentric position I wanted to try. !!! Always I disciplined myself to only remove the armature when in Neutral position with pins aligned! Then just use my regular 13mm wrench and screwdriver to adjust Eccentric position as I wished. I will say also I liked your idea of like making a diagram of degrees you tried on the case (as an indication of Eccentric screw position and did a mash up of that which helped immensely. I marked the pin on the gear selector that happened to line up on Neutral on the wheel with a Sharpie and then noted on the "gasket" with tape where that mark ended up with each gear change. So after that it was easy to just shift around and know what gear it was in after each gear change. Today I went the extra mile w/ Team Franziskaner and made a template for next time that I made with the gear marks clearly labeled. I found the blue tape kept slipping off the case due to oil etc. I have attached a few photos of this little endeavor. It really gave me a feel of better control over the process of fiddling with the eccentric nut to get best shifting starting from N. Then N-1-N-2-3-4-5 and down again. With special focus on 3-4 and 4-5 and 5-4 and 4-3 shifting as suggested by others. I realize with an eccentric nut there is like infinite degrees of adjustment. I also took note of Piranha's method of marking the exact position of the groove for screwdriver in the eccentric screw and marked it on the Franzi template with a ruler and after I arrived at final "Mk I" best try adjustment made sure when tightening the eccentric lock nut that it was still in position. I decided in this case to stick with original lock nut instead of flanged as I felt I would try it first and if it acts up again so be it - I'll go with flange. I will also note that the whole affair of my "gear change lock up" not being able to shift above 1-N (like to 2 or above) was I think because a bit of Brass had shaved off my new Neutral switch I had installed some months ago and was lodged such that the traveling Neutral ball ended plunger was stuck somehow so from N to 2 would not budge. Just a theory. Can't explain why I could go from N to 1 and 1 to N again but no other gear. In any case I spent a lot of time testing the Neutral switch and testing at just the right washers that let it show Zero resistance in the depressed (Neutral gear) state. In the relaxed state show 1 as resistance. I got it within like .5mm. So if this switch acts up again I'm getting another. I also will mention another theory competing with Neutral switch is that the new Spring I installed on the armature (the big spring... not the little arm spring) had a different profile and possibly could have been in the way of my shift attempts... where maybe it blocked the armature from full contact with the eccentric. I decided to go back to the original spring I had which was OK and it's profile bent outward a bit so no worries of that collision.
Will post how trial goes when I fill again with oil and try it on a test run for gear change smoothness. Definitely I think this operation is part science and part art? Maybe it is part of the Italian way.
 

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Good to see you making progress mr Aircooled. The inability to shift between N and 1, 1 and N, but not beyond is simple if you have seen how the mechanism operates. There's a small linear ridge on the bottom edge of the selector drum inside the cases that pushes down the sprung portion of the neutral light switch. Yours was obviously leaning toward the 1st gear side and would travel far enough towards N that it would select (and no doubt operate the N light), but it couldn't travel beyond that ridge to 2, 3, 4, 5. If you'd had it in 2nd when the N light switch was fitted, the opposite would have been the case.
Not a bad idea marking the individual gears on the cardboard - I've never needed it personally, just start with neutral and count as I feel each gear engage. It is definitely a dark art with some bikes, not just a simple case of having the hook equidistant from the pins. It's a bit like idle mixture adjustments on Dell'Ortos and other carbies - the highest idle doesn't usually give you the best pick up off idle.
 
As the case cover bolts into position, it can tip the mechanism into a more squared-up position, it's all unseen so anything can move a bit then this happens. All this stuff isn't like a Swiss Watch, it's more like an Italian Tractor, guess why.
 
And remember the golden rule to ensure that the inner cover is a bit forward on its bolts when tightening, so that there is some slack between the meshed gears.
 
As a follow up - I arrived at what I thought was good shifting in my tests (using the little index template as per photo) and buttoned the bike up again and put fresh oil in it. No leaks at all. Over a couple days I went on 2 test rides and at this point I'm pretty happy with the shifting. I did notice a couple times from 5 to 4 I got false neutral. But upon another tap to change gear and it would find 4th. The 2nd ride I went on a longer faster road and found majority of my 10 minute ride going from 5 to 4 was smooth but did get false neutral once or twice out of maybe 6 test shifts for that gear change. The other gear changes did not show this issue. Partly I am wondering if I just need to practice the shift better. Maybe give a bit of rev before doing the 5 to 4? That seemed to make a difference. In any case - I think I'll do longer test ride to get the feel of it rather than the brief jaunt of a couple miles.
 
Yeah, ride it for a while and see how consistent it is. You may find if it continues to miss the odd 4-5 a very small tweak towards the upshift may solve it without affecting any of the other shifts.
 
With very low revs I find it is far more likely to not completely engage if a bit careless, usually if just tootling around. It is a big hefty gearbox, but riding with as you say more revs, the gears hook up fine. In top gear the shafts don´t have a lot of difference in rotation speed.
 
Take the neutral switch out and replace with a plug. You'll eliminate any doubt you have about it's influence.
That's a very short gear lever you have, a longer one with a big boot might also help with your gear shifting problems.
Paul
 
I had not thought of the gear shift lever being short. Thanks for that tip. On my 2nd test ride I wore proper riding boots instead of hiking boots and always better feel on any bike shifting. I may look into getting the longer (original) spec shifter. I wonder why shorter one was put on there. And Neutral switch will be deleted if it acts up. I just like looking at the Green glow of the Neutral Light on the Nippon Denso gauge. A feeling of something cooperating. Heh.
 
I used the short 3C gear lever on my SF1 because it allowed me to pivot the pegs back a notch (before I did it properly and fitted rearsets) ... plus I have a size 40 foot (7US) and the long one use to piss me off. But it does definitely alter the ease of shifting a tad (less travel, altered leverage). It wasn't that uncommon to swap to the triple leaver.
 
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