Harsh Cer Forks.

Reminds me of a story Marty Moose, I think it was, related (bit hazy on the details, it was a while ago) where he was in a lift or something with a couple of popsies one of whom remarked that he was a big bloke and how tall was he exactly.  I'm 6 foot 6 (or whatever he is) he replied.  What's that in young person's measurements asked the popsie, presumably making him feel very old in an instant.
 
Last weekend we did a ride on one of the more notoriously bumpy roads around Sydney, Wisemans Ferry and my forks are still harsh, earlier in this thread, Steve B mentioned my Emulators should have blue preload springs and I replied mine had no colour but I expected they should be blue and correct. I just had some emulators fitted to my Pantah and they came with blue springs. All the fitting info on the net says typically blue was the best starting point, so I got some blue springs on spec.
Cheap at $18 if they were the same as I had fitted. So today I swapped them out, I don't know what I had fitted and spent months adjusting including oil weight changes with minimum effect on the problem but compared to the blue springs which I can with some effort close with finger pressure the original springs I cannot move at all. MUCH stiffer. Haven't ridden it yet but from what it feels like it will make a huge difference. Hoping the fork kicking off big bumps is now gone.
 
Vince said:
Last weekend we did a ride on one of the more notoriously bumpy roads around Sydney, Wisemans Ferry and my forks are still harsh, earlier in this thread, Steve B mentioned my Emulators should have blue preload springs and I replied mine had no colour but I expected they should be blue and correct. I just had some emulators fitted to my Pantah and they came with blue springs. All the fitting info on the net says typically blue was the best starting point, so I got some blue springs on spec.
Cheap at $18 if they were the same as I had fitted. So today I swapped them out, I don't know what I had fitted and spent months adjusting including oil weight changes with minimum effect on the problem but compared to the blue springs which I can with some effort close with finger pressure the original springs I cannot move at all. MUCH stiffer. Haven't ridden it yet but from what it feels like it will make a huge difference. Hoping the fork kicking off big bumps is now gone.
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Interesting - I have just been reading anything I could find on issues with the Emulators as I am still unhappy with low speed harshness and wondered what was best way to go and found a post on some other (US) forum about exactly this issue.
This bloke had been talking with someone from Race Tech about his low speed (& initial) harshness and they said the emulators come with a yellow spring (64lb) and he should change to a Blue spring (40lb) which would be more compliant and help his problem !!
So, this certainly looks like a logical next move - did you get the blue springs from Race Tech Vince?
Thanks - I look forward to giving this a go :)
(Of course I'll be buggered if I pull my Emulators out and they already have Blue springs ???)
 
I got them from the Oz distributor Shock Treatment in Sydney, they do mail order, my Laverda emulators have been in for a very long time. Maybe 10 years, and they came with 1 slow speed bleed hole and these very strong no colour springs. That's Cer forks, the ones I recently bought for the Maz 38mm fork on my Pantah came with blue springs and 2 slow speed bleed holes standard so I guess over time they have had some feedback and maybe now have better std base settings. The first set I fitted were to the 43mm MX non-cartridge Kawasaki forks I fitted to my Husky Auto dirtbike and that was fantastic right out of the box, must have arsed that at first fitting.
 
Vince said:
I got them from the Oz distributor Shock Treatment in Sydney, they do mail order, my Laverda emulators have been in for a very long time. Maybe 10 years, and they came with 1 slow speed bleed hole and these very strong no colour springs. That's Cer forks, the ones I recently bought for the Maz 38mm fork on my Pantah came with blue springs and 2 slow speed bleed holes standard so I guess over time they have had some feedback and maybe now have better std base settings. The first set I fitted were to the 43mm MX non-cartridge Kawasaki forks I fitted to my Husky Auto dirtbike and that was fantastic right out of the box, must have arsed that at first fitting.
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Yeh, just had a look at that post I dredged up and it is quite old so possibly things have changed. (mine are only about 5 years old) I can't remember what colour springs were on mine so will wait till I take them out again to work out next course of action.
 
Good to see this here now as I am getting my road bike ready to de-hibernate after winter. The emulators I fitted to my SF2 five years or so ago also had yellow springs as fitted. The info sheet with them said that for 33-35mm forks blue were recommended. Yesterday I backed off a turn but I?ll whip them out today and fit the blue ones. I also have the initial harshness on sharp bumps. I searched for this thread of Vince?s and couldn?t find it. My racebike has the yellow as fitted and I don?t notice the initial harshness.
 
On smooth roads the bike with whatever the stronger spring in it was fine, didnt bottom on the brakes. On bumpy roads it was ok, didnt deflect the steering but before I added the 2nd slow speed breed hole I would feel rapid pulsing in the handlebars usually approaching bends or traffic lights. That was I think small corrugations caused by heavy vehicles braking. On badly bumpy roads it would have big bangs go through the bars with quite a jar. Anyway be interesting to see how its going now.
 
Shajota said:
- did you get the blue springs from Race Tech Vince?
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Whwn I bought my emulators they came with yellow springs fitted and a set of blue springs in the pack.
 
Hey Vince I think we have been chasing the same problem.

I've found the forks harsh from the beginning with the sportsvalves fitted.

The problem is one day they feel better then another day they don't. I like firm forks, hate any real discernable dive but I also hate the slow speed bumpy ride.

I've adjusted the sag via preload using washers and the oil is the 5w recommended by Sportsvalve, now I'm slowly backing off the compression damping and putting in a little more rebound which makes the front feel more precise.


 
That's why your gadget is better than my gadget. I only have the ability to mechanically adjust compression, rebound on mine needs an oil weight change for rebound. I have pulled the emulators out changed and back in to 20 minutes. What it feels like doing a front brake on fork push while standing next to the bike has it more progressive at bottom of travel, probably wishful thinking though. Will know more after a bumpy ride.
 
I believe all the emulators ship with yellow springs and blue ones are enclosed in the package.
They now have 2 bleed holes and a pair of dimples for the user to add one or two more holes.

My Mirage originally only had a single bleed hole in the emulator but after a long trackside visit with Matt
(the Race-Tech tech) I added another bleed hole.

My std setup is blue at 2 turns, .95 springs with 25mm preload, 15w oil, two bleed holes for a 180-200# pilot
For someone in the 220-250# range I start with three turns on the blue spring and 5 to 10mm more preload
Heavier bikes (and riders) get more slow speed holes as they typically use the stronger (yellow) springs.

 
Still chasing mine today, no progress really. Brakes got in the way so never finished the tuning but was going in the wrong direction. Start again tomorrow.
 
Just checked the front sag, it's been ages since I did it and was concerned it might have sacked out a bit. Its 37mm, close enough for me. Hopefully, my new front tyre should arrive soon and maybe even the not available in OZ but I talked the OZ distributor into bringing some in, T30 Evo 140/70 Bridgestone Radial rear. First time I have had a matched set of tyres for a very long time.
 
This thread reveals the irony of chasing down a fault that doesn't really exist in the first place. The Ceriani forks were a perfectly good product as originally fitted to the bike. Certainly they were way better than any forks fitted to the big Jap bikes of the day. I too got caught the fork "improvement" bug, especially after I had to rebuild the forks with new pistons as one had swollen and was binding. I should really have just rebuilt them as they came out of the factory but after reading all the gushing posts on emulators and the Laverdamania article explaining how much better they were with emulators, I bought and fitted a set in the recommended manner - as per Laverdamania and Racetechs instructions.

You guessed it - forks as harsh as all crap. Now Racetech say you need adaptors to go with the emulators - not originally recommended, and need to be fitted with Racetech springs.

I wish I had left the f'n things alone as they were perfectly good forks for the bike in the first place and will never match modern cartridge forks no matter what you do to them - apart from converting them to modern cartridge forks. Pity I have drilled the damper rods and now can't go back.
 
What sold me was the first set I fitted to the Husky dirtbike with the what I really wanted disc brake fork. That fork was a really good MX fork but absolute crap on little square edges bumps. The emulators made a huge difference, great on big hits and really comfy on the little stuff. I must have lucked out on that fit hitting the tune first time on the Rack Tech supplied original setting. On the Laverda, I have had the wrong preload springs fitted for 10 years. Even when I bought the blue springs the bloke who sold them to me was saying he preferred the yellow ones and recommended them. I just think they don't keep records or follow up on what works in what application and leave it all to the customer. The odd thing is the emulators I fitted to my Pantah 6 months ago, 38mm Maz, have the exactly correct setting std as supplied I have now in the Cer forks in my Laverda. Anyway with this thread at least we have a few different perspectives on these and people can make up their own minds. They should be plug and play after all these years of being around. I know both Brett and Marty have canned them over the years. BTW I expect you could either Epoxy or braze your holes and go back to std if you want.
 
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