Head gasket choices for a triple?

[1200ts]

I will be removing the head on a 1976 3CL to fix a oil leak at the cam chain tunnel. What are the current choices for head gaskets?

Searching on this forum, I see my choices are reproduction ones and one from Keith? Is the Keith gasket the best choice? If so who sells them? I normally get my parts from Wolfgang. Will he have the new and improved gasket or do I need to order directly from Keith?

 

[Rob]

Detailed info was posted by Piet here in relation to the different gasket types -

https://laverdaforum.com/threads/cylinder-barrel.101180/post-560678

Once you've got your head around the implications I'd suggest you contact Wolfgang to find out what he can supply vs trying to get hold of Keith

 

[3CBRG]

Great info on that link. I could have used when mirage I built way back when (oil leakage) caused untold misery.

 

[terry sage]

Great info on that link. I could have used when mirage I built way back when (oil leakage) caused untold misery.

I have had the Keith Nairn head gasket fitted and so far have had no leaks

 

[AndyW]

I have had the Keith Nairn head gasket fitted and so far have had no leaks

Did you need to use any o-rings with it around the oil ways?

 

[pf1]

Did you need to use any o-rings with it around the oil ways?

No it has copper washers built in I think.

 

[Paul Marx]

I have one of Keith's gaskets.
Yes, copper rings on the oil ways.
Paul

 

[Jota Rob]

Been experimenting with Head gaskets,hopefully not re-inventing the wheel.

I have a flat machined cylinder block and Head. Biggest issue is with 81mm pistons interfering with Head gasket. Not the 1st time I've encountered this issue. The Athena gaskets are 80mm nominal, 80.65 +/-.05.


I made a tool to stretch the fire ring 1mm dia. It almost worked but didn't. I got the fire ring out 1mm to 81.6mm but the composite doesn't like being stretched and migrates in the easiest direction which of course is adjacent to the largest holes, ( cam chain, oil feed holes).
So I ended up with a stressed gasket with holes off centre.
Trying a fresh gasket, I observe the cylinder holes do not perfectly align with each liner ( the stud holes aren't perfect either but they can be accomodated).

I removed the fire rings ( gets easier with practice). Opened up the gasket holes and used the opportunity to align the holes better.

Refitted the fire rings, rolled them gently and then pressed them shut/ expanded them 1mm.

I will admit, I haven't asked Keith about 81mm gaskets but I'm not keen on doing any more machining right now, hence where I'm at.

The tool I made has a built in stop and a tapered plug.

 

[pf1]

I have a Phil Todd gasket and a Keith Nairn gasket waiting in the wings. I've read all the squabbling about whose fault leaking head gaskets is but I'm none the wiser really. £100 is too much for a head gasket in my opinion and I've never had problems before so I'm going cheap.

 

[piranha-bro2]

During a chat with Phil T about OS twin head gaskets he said he removed the flame ring from a Guzzi head gasket and mated it to an opened out std twin gasket - successful custom job. Nicely done, Rob.

I agree 100 quid is too much for a head gasket. Probably similar for Andy W's big bore twin head gaskets. Not a prob if you fit them and ride for 10 years on them but no fun if you have to remove the head for repairs. I've got about 10 std NOS Laverda-supplied head gaskets so I might look into turning a few into OS ones.

 

[KERMIT1200]

Been experimenting with Head gaskets,hopefully not re-inventing the wheel.

I have a flat machined cylinder block and Head. Biggest issue is with 81mm pistons interfering with Head gasket. Not the 1st time I've encountered this issue. The Athena gaskets are 80mm nominal, 80.65 +/-.05.


I made a tool to stretch the fire ring 1mm dia. It almost worked but didn't. I got the fire ring out 1mm to 81.6mm but the composite doesn't like being stretched and migrates in the easiest direction which of course is adjacent to the largest holes, ( cam chain, oil feed holes).
So I ended up with a stressed gasket with holes off centre.
Trying a fresh gasket, I observe the cylinder holes do not perfectly align with each liner ( the stud holes aren't perfect either but they can be accomodated).

I removed the fire rings ( gets easier with practice). Opened up the gasket holes and used the opportunity to align the holes better.

Refitted the fire rings, rolled them gently and then pressed them shut/ expanded them 1mm.

I will admit, I haven't asked Keith about 81mm gaskets but I'm not keen on doing any more machining right now, hence where I'm at.

The tool I made has a built in stop and a tapered plug.

Hi Rob, Keith's gaskets 81.5mm which appear to work well from my experience.
Andy

 

[Jota Rob]

Good to know, thanks.

 

[pf1]

So what is wrong with Athena triple head gaskets anyone? Do they have a particular problem or are they ok?

 

[redax5]

So what is wrong with Athena triple head gaskets anyone? Do they have a particular problem or are they ok?

someone, not mentioning the dealers name, told them to make the flame rings from steel and at 1.0mm thick instead of copper at 1.3mm
work great on a 1200 barrel if you skim the face flush and remove the 0.10mm Liner flange recess, bit more difficult to do that on a 1000 barrel with the raised spigot
Using the steel version on a barrel with the Liner flange recess results in a head gasket oil leak around the 1,000 klm mark if not earlier
Photo of the head gasket that Rob posted above is one of Athena's gaskets

will comment though that the steel flame ring version is a great gasket in itself, you just need to prepare the barrel face accordingly to have no Liner flange recess
I use those gaskets on my race engines running around 14:1 compression ratio with limited issues

available head gaskets that I know of and that I have in stock
1.0mm with steel flame rings at 1.0mm, as above
1.0mm with copper flame rings at 1.3mm with copper sealing washers on the oil through studs from Keith, top kit
1.25mm with copper flame rings at 1.5mm also from Athena
1.50mm with copper flame rings at 1.8mm, not certain who makes them but are a good gasket but only use them on machined heads to regain dimensions

There are also gaskets made in the UK that are 1.0mm with copper flame rings at 1.3mm using O-Rings to seal the through studs, I don't use them anymore
Had a couple of high mileage engines blow their head gaskets out due to the gasket material itself failing, lifted the heads and the head gasket was in pieces

HTH

 

[pf1]

I'm asking because they are £30 from Germany at the moment. I have one of Keith's gaskets, one of Phil Todd's gaskets and need another couple so I was tempted to get some but it sounds like it will be a waste of money for the 1000 motors.
I asked Ged Shorten and he said they are ok but you need to keep pulling the head down until they settle which takes ages.
I'm wondering what Classic Gaskets supply. They are advertising in the ILOC magazine.

 

[pf1]

Original Athena Cylinder Head Gasket 1.2mm for Laverda 1200 73-80 | eBay UK

Athena offers the widest range of replacement seals on the market and has over 40 years of industry experience. The basis of Athena sealing kits is solid know-how, continuous technological development carried out by an internal team of engineers and designers, and production carried out strictly...

www.ebay.co.uk

Original Athena Cylinder Head Gasket for Laverda 180 1200 73-80 | eBay UK

Athena offers the widest range of replacement seals on the market and has over 40 years of industry experience. The basis of Athena sealing kits is solid know-how, continuous technological development carried out by an internal team of engineers and designers, and production carried out strictly...

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[pf1]

1.2mm copper ring...might be ok? Don't know why the link below has a stupid title
There is a 1.5 version too.

Original Athena Cylinder Head Gasket 1.2mm for Laverda 1200 73-80 | eBay UK

Athena offers the widest range of replacement seals on the market and has over 40 years of industry experience. The basis of Athena sealing kits is solid know-how, continuous technological development carried out by an internal team of engineers and designers, and production carried out strictly...

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[redax5]

1.2mm copper ring...might be ok? Don't know why the link below has a stupid title

]

that gasket is fine, is same as I mentioned above at 1.25mm, you just need to be aware that if your cylinder head is still at standard thickness of 94.0mm then that extra 0.25mm is going to cause you issues to join the cam chain especially if you use a new cam chain

both gaskets in your links are made by Athena, after the change to the steel flame ring version and thus a number of rebuilt engines having to be pulled back out to replace their head gaskets Wolfgang asked Athena revert back to copper flame rings but they then changed everything to the 1.25mm head gasket with 1.5mm copper flame rings

Must say, Wolfgang was not the dealer behind the change to the steel flame ring gasket

right now if I need to use a 1.0mm head gasket with 1.3mm copper flame ring on a 1000 barrel with a standard thickness cylinder head only head gasket I will use is Keith's
on the 1200 barrels I use the steel version, after machining the barrel face flush

 

[pf1]

So the 1.0mm would be no good for my purposes.
I think I'll buy some of the 1.25mm gaskets.

Many thanks for the input folks, that was a great explanation Red, I had to re-read it to get it all into my thick skull.
Next stop cheap piston rings, is there such a thing

 

[nick7]

I have a Phil Todd gasket and a Keith Nairn gasket waiting in the wings. I've read all the squabbling about whose fault leaking head gaskets is but I'm none the wiser really. £100 is too much for a head gasket in my opinion and I've never had problems before so I'm going cheap.

Seriously, don't do that..I have seen both, one fails badly.