How far does your clutch pushrod stick out?

Just popped home for lunch and striped the RGS's primary side.

The square key is worn but not enough to have caused the piston to move so far out that it would leak as it did.

I've found the problem though. Or maybe it would be more accurate to say that I've not found it!  ???

The ball bearing that sits between the two push rods has disappeared....  :o

I know that there was one in there as I put a new one in there myself cica 2007 when I rebuilt the motor, in fact I can even remember where I got the ball bearing from and herein lies the rub!

Are all ball bearings equal?
I bought the last ones from a Cycle shop, could it be that they are only case hardened and we need through hardened?

T.

Square.JPG


 
SimonR501 said:
The push bike ones must be way too soft!
Click to expand...

So soft they seem to have been eaten!

Oh well, I've removed the pushrod seal from from the end of the mainshaft and blasted through from the other side with GT85 and then an air line. So hopefully I'll have got rid of the remaining bits of powered bearing!!!

You live and learn hey, and sometimes you just need to man-up and get some tougher balls.....

T
 
Might be an idea to clean up the key 'while you're at it' and put it back with another face against the rod, that way it's only 1/4 worn.
 
Terry Dymond said:
Might be an idea to clean up the key 'while you're at it' and put it back with another face against the rod, that way it's only 1/4 worn.
Click to expand...
Yep Terry, I'm on it.
T
 
I would replace it really, not worth to have a weakened part at this place where you can't reach it easily if it brakes...

Also I would replace the piston, pushrods and balls. Costs maybe 100? all in all, but for peace of mind...

just a thought.
 
reckon i'll ask this question again, 'cause i didn't see any answers come back ??  unless i've missed something?

anyhow, i lost the clutch on Clyde, me '78 1200, yesterday arvo.  the lever has been working ok for the last 600 k's, but now it don't.
cable is ok.  so thought the square key must of broke?  no, it's ok.  everything looks ok,  no sign of excessive wear, and no sign of anything except for how it all should be.
but it don't work.
the total length of clutch rods + ball = 251 mm.
clutchrod251.jpg

and now it's too short.  was long enough yesterday morning, but today it's too short.   wtf !!

so how far does ya clutch rod stick out the end of the output shaft? and how long is the overall length?
today, the rod sits about 6 mm from the end of the shaft (not the seal).  and i'm guessing it should be about 10 - 12 mm ??
Tony mentioned a 25.5 mm?   but that would be way too long for the cable clutch i reckon.

anyhow, will make a longer rod and i should get the clutch lever working again.
but whatever happened yesterday, is a real mystery.    yea, i am from da cane fields.    ::)
cheers

 ,, & no , i don't expect ya all to go start pulling ya gearbox covers off,  but thought somebody might know something ?
 
pretty sure you know that already, but for all others: make sure you harden the ends of the rods when making new ones... and don't use stainless steel, doesn't work (guess how I know...). use a tat bit of grease when installing the balls/rods (but not to much!!), the "oil-steam-greasing" doesn't really work...
 
Mark,

The two rods on my cable clutch Jota are 122mm.
The rod projects about 11mm beyond the oil seal and 7mm beyond the shaft.
The faces of the rods and the square key are completely flat, and the bearing between the rods is new.
The clutch friction plate thickness is approx 3mm.
The engine is still on the bench, so I can't say how this will translate into actual operation.
 
thanks Tom,  dimensions are what i need for now.
your (122 x2) + 6 ball = 250 mm.  so close to what i got.
i reckon you might have the same issue, that i got today ??  i.e.  it will be too short. (was it working before?)

the clutch plates and pressure plate look ok too,  but i haven't measured anything on the clutch side,, yet.
 
Laverdalothar said:
... and don't use stainless steel, doesn't work (guess how I know...).
Click to expand...
yea, reckon a good tip.  anyhow one step at a time.  will just dummy a rod up first, to see if i can get the clutch back working.
 
Laverdalothar said:
use a tat bit of grease when installing the balls/rods (but not to much!!), the "oil-steam-greasing" doesn't really work...
Click to expand...

Graphogen Graphite Grease (not Moly, I got it wrong) is ace for this sort of thing, it is an assembly grease for precision parts.
 
Lothar and I must have done the same thing,years ago I had a problem after I did the extended clutch arm mod.It hit the case,so I made a slightly longer push rod from Silver Steel,propriatory name for Stainless rod.It lasted about 45 minutes.So as a quick fix I put the standard CASE HARDENED,didnt know at the time,rod back in and added an extra ball bearing in between the 2 rods.Yes I know its bodgy.It stayed like that for maybe 10 years till I longer CASE HARDENED longer rod went in.The point load on these ball bearing must be bloody high to have one completely grind itself to dust.
 
1000/3C_Stefan said:
The entire disappearance of clutch actuation within short term you experienced looks strange to me, Mark.
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yea, it's being doing me head in today!  this arvo i had to fire up the farken mower and do the yard.  at least something got done eh!

1000/3C_Stefan said:
If anything else is fine something might have collapsed at the actuator mechanism in the sprocket cover? Dislocation of L/H main shaft bearing or clutch core seems rather impossible to me, would guess even the guys from da canefields don't miss to put all circlips in... ::)
Click to expand...
thought the same.  checked the cable lever mechanism and it all looks good.  the 8 mm ball is good.
pulled the clutch right off and checked the mainshaft bearing and it all looks ok.
and i reckon the mainshaft can't go anywhere without rooting up the gear selection?
 
markQLD said:
 was long enough yesterday morning, but today it's too short.   wtf !!
Click to expand...

Hey Mark

Do do do do, do do do do 
We've seem to have entered the pushrod twilight zone!

T.
 
1000/3C_Stefan said:
... and new rods being 122.5mm long (same as yours obviously), ,,, Clutch working perfectly.
Click to expand...
so it ain't the rods, which it shouldn't be, 'cause they worked before.   me rods are 121.4 and 123.7 long.
reckon i gotta keep poking around,, maybe look at that clutch again ??

anyone know the distance between the clutch pressure plate and the end of mainshaft ??   please.   (notworthy)
but the pressure plate can't just jump further out.  it would drop off the end of the splines.
confused.  :'(
 
Mark are you sure your problem is not in the lever mounted in the sprocket cover is the ball still in one piece in there has the hook stretched or broken that hold the ball or the lever pivot point ???
 
1000/3C_Stefan said:
...how much did the rod stick out the shaft when you first took off the sprocket cover, Mark?
Click to expand...
it was only about 6 mm.   and that's the problem.  'cause the cable lever in the cover has run out of travel and is hard against the inside, with the rod only at 6 mm.
that's why i thought something had broke along the rods or the square key.   but,,  no, no, farken no.  ain't nothing broke anywhere!  & me balls are good.
will go and have another dekko.    i hate farken mysteries !!     >:D
cheers
 
G'day cane toad man

Have you checked the circlip that holds the clutch hub onto the mainshaft? If it's failed in some way, the whole clutch assembly could move towards the primary cover. It's something that could fail suddenly and give the symptoms you describe.

Cheers,
Cam
 
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