Are the rods supposed to be the same length? The time the stainless rod failed on mine in 45minutes it had shortened itself in use,thats why I said earlier that all it takes a 1 or 2 millimetres to disappear to loose the adjustment.Try giving the rod ends a soft rub with a file as a test as to how hard they are.Don't understand if they have been ok for a good while why all of a sudden they fail,warn through the surface hardening maybe?Lost some size to the ball bearing as well?I had a cluch fork in a car crack and bend once,hard to see,replaced the cluch before we found it.
How far does your clutch pushrod stick out?
- Thread starter Tony
- Start date
markQLD
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- Location
- QLD Australia
yes, it all looks ok. but yea, i know i'm missing something.Dellortoman said:
doesn't really matter.Vince said:
it all looks ok. the rods have still got small witness marks on each end from the previous use, to show how they were installed.Vince said:
i.e. against the key, or the 6 mm ball, or the 8 mm ball. it all looks farken ok to me.
i'm guessing it ain't the rods, balls, or key, like i first thought. and it looks like that total length is ok ? 'cause it was last farken week!
,, but today it is too short. a blokes got plenty of Bundy rum in the cabinet,, reckon that just might be the answer! cheers
Dellortoman
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- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
OK, here's another possibility:
Are the friction plates new? If so, it's possible that the stack of plates is a little too thick, so that when you pull the lever in, the pressure plate can lift off the end of the clutch hub so that the spline disengages. It'll then hang there and the cable will go slack. I had exactly that happen when I installed a new set of Red's kevlar plates and had the cable adjustment a bit tight.
Cam
Are the friction plates new? If so, it's possible that the stack of plates is a little too thick, so that when you pull the lever in, the pressure plate can lift off the end of the clutch hub so that the spline disengages. It'll then hang there and the cable will go slack. I had exactly that happen when I installed a new set of Red's kevlar plates and had the cable adjustment a bit tight.
Cam
markQLD
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- Location
- QLD Australia
now that is interesting, Iceman.Dellortoman said:
i 'av been running the cable adjustment at bugger all, 'cause it's been still dragging when fully disengaged. i.e forget finding neutral at the lights.
but looked at that pressure plate before i pulled the springs out, and i reckon it looked ok.
,, and thinking about it, the clutch springs didn't shoot the bolts out when i unbolted them. it was all sort of normal. and i did a dummy reassemble with just 2 springs, and the rod was still too short. ho hum.
anyway, one step at a time. got me some 1/4" balls this morning. so can just throw another ball in and see what happens?
don't like having a ball on ball, 'cause of the side load it will introduce,, but bugger all i guess. Vince ran it for years.
don't know how tough the balls are i got, but just tried to smash one through a thick steel plate. reckon +1 for the ball,, it still rolls good.
first, i'll just reassemble the whole bloody thing again, without changing anything!
anyhow, got a bar-b and piss drinking to do this arvo. and maybe a CLQ run tomorrow. but i'm gunna 'av to go sweet talk Miss J. oh dear.
LaverdaIan
Hero member
Maate, if ya gotta do that, it's gotta be wrong.. reckon Cam's idea sounded good, and whilst disassembling the unit the pressure plate may..?? have dropped back on the splines.. :
Reckon some more actual internal measurements might reveal.. but hey what would I know.. I just gave up and converted to hydraulic for Monty..
Enjoy the pissup, reckon you've earned it..
8)
Reckon some more actual internal measurements might reveal.. but hey what would I know.. I just gave up and converted to hydraulic for Monty..
Enjoy the pissup, reckon you've earned it..
8)
The double ball thing was done because thats all I had at the time.Not so easy to get out later as well.It was at the time a last resort.The extended arm as a home made one,this was before the kits were around and it contacted the case well before it should have.Those Kevlar plates do shed a bit early on,check the mesh filter under the exhaust.Maybe its a combination of things,a bit here a bit there.Clutch cable distance from inner to outer.
Dellortoman
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- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
G'day Mark
I don't reckon the clutch springs would have shot the bolts out even if the pressure plate was hung on the end of the spline. There's only a few millimeters of movemenrt in the clutch and plenty of thread on the bolts for the springs to relax before they come out, even if they're compressed. So I'm guessing it wouldn't be obvious during disassembly.
I knew it was hung up becsause the lever stayed in about half way to the handlebar and the clutch stayed disengaged. I coasted to the side of the road with no drive to the rear wheel. Stopped the engine, put the bike in gear and rocked it back and forward while yanking on the lever. Eventually I heard a pop from inside the primary cover and the lever shot back out again as the pressure plate popped back onto its spline! I slackened the cable off a bit after that so I wasn't lifting the pressure plate as much. The plates have done about 8000km now so probably settled a bit.
When I assembled it with new plates, there was only a couple of millimeters between the pressure plate sitting on the stack of clutch plates and the end of the spline. I remember thinking at the time that it could hop off the end. :
Cheers,
Cam
I don't reckon the clutch springs would have shot the bolts out even if the pressure plate was hung on the end of the spline. There's only a few millimeters of movemenrt in the clutch and plenty of thread on the bolts for the springs to relax before they come out, even if they're compressed. So I'm guessing it wouldn't be obvious during disassembly.
I knew it was hung up becsause the lever stayed in about half way to the handlebar and the clutch stayed disengaged. I coasted to the side of the road with no drive to the rear wheel. Stopped the engine, put the bike in gear and rocked it back and forward while yanking on the lever. Eventually I heard a pop from inside the primary cover and the lever shot back out again as the pressure plate popped back onto its spline! I slackened the cable off a bit after that so I wasn't lifting the pressure plate as much. The plates have done about 8000km now so probably settled a bit.
When I assembled it with new plates, there was only a couple of millimeters between the pressure plate sitting on the stack of clutch plates and the end of the spline. I remember thinking at the time that it could hop off the end. :
Cheers,
Cam
breganzane
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- Location
- NSW Australia
As I understood it, Mark was able to ride home, so the clutch was still engaged therefore it couldn't have been the pressure plate hanging up on the splines? An interesting one to know though, one of those 'store that away in the memory bank' things.
It's been an entertaining read, as it does appear to defy description. Seems most likely to be something has bent or broken in the sprocket cover throwout lever assembly. Like for example the rolling element which is captive in the slotted steel bit in the sprocket cover. If that split and fell out it would be all but invisible but would stuff up the clutch release lever geometry. Seems bloody unlikely though, more likely to be a cracked ally casting either in the clutch or the cover.
Mainshaft clutch basket circlip or bearing location is probably the next most likely. 1st gear is integral to the shaft and directly against the bearing, so the shaft can't move to the left unless the bearing is missing its retainer ring and has shifted to the left in the cases?? Again, unlikely on a couple of levels. Shaft can move to the right if the circlip has failed somehow, but if anything the clutch release force will push it to the left.
So there you go Mark, we've concluded that the balance of probability is that there is nothing wrong at all.
It's a curly one that's for sure, will no doubt take numerous beers to resolve.
Cheers
SteveB
It's been an entertaining read, as it does appear to defy description. Seems most likely to be something has bent or broken in the sprocket cover throwout lever assembly. Like for example the rolling element which is captive in the slotted steel bit in the sprocket cover. If that split and fell out it would be all but invisible but would stuff up the clutch release lever geometry. Seems bloody unlikely though, more likely to be a cracked ally casting either in the clutch or the cover.
Mainshaft clutch basket circlip or bearing location is probably the next most likely. 1st gear is integral to the shaft and directly against the bearing, so the shaft can't move to the left unless the bearing is missing its retainer ring and has shifted to the left in the cases?? Again, unlikely on a couple of levels. Shaft can move to the right if the circlip has failed somehow, but if anything the clutch release force will push it to the left.
So there you go Mark, we've concluded that the balance of probability is that there is nothing wrong at all.
It's a curly one that's for sure, will no doubt take numerous beers to resolve.
Cheers
SteveB
Vince,
Stainless and silver steel are different things entirely, at least over here...
Silver steel can be flame-heated and hardened to a degree, good enough for Laverda clutch push rods. And it will rust, so definitely not stainless!
My own push rods made from silver steel have been in the bike for at least 15 years, no servicing above the norm and still in very good condition. These were made to accomodate an extra ball, ie, 3-piece rods and to cater for a lengthened actuating lever and to achieve proper lever geometry.
In stock configuration, both rods are of equal length, the hydraulically operated are longer and protrude further than the cable operated ones.
Never heard of a ball bearing disappearing, must have been made of putty... or chinese!
piet
Stainless and silver steel are different things entirely, at least over here...
Silver steel can be flame-heated and hardened to a degree, good enough for Laverda clutch push rods. And it will rust, so definitely not stainless!
My own push rods made from silver steel have been in the bike for at least 15 years, no servicing above the norm and still in very good condition. These were made to accomodate an extra ball, ie, 3-piece rods and to cater for a lengthened actuating lever and to achieve proper lever geometry.
In stock configuration, both rods are of equal length, the hydraulically operated are longer and protrude further than the cable operated ones.
Never heard of a ball bearing disappearing, must have been made of putty... or chinese!
piet
Good to know Piet,I bought it from the local Nut and Bolt shop,they had a display with various sections a mitre long,I assumed it was the same as Stainless but timbers my game.So do you do the heat to Chery red and quench it till you see straw and then fully quench,or do you heat and dunk into the carbon stuff.Its a very very long time since Metalwork at Crows Nest Boys High School.I still get cold shivers remembering that shit hole.
Simonr501
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- Lympne, Kent. UK
sfcpiet said:
Plenty hard then! Lets hope not too hard.
Loads of carbon in silver steel, so plenty of scope. Even harder if quenched in salt water, not quite so hard if quenched in oil. Not sure what the Rockwell number for hardness it will be then.
Remember to quench the rod in the water from dead vertical, otherwise the rod will bend (one side cools rapidly while other side is still hot).
Vince! I remember case hardening that way, dunk into carbon powder and then quench.
markQLD
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- Location
- QLD Australia
sfcpiet said:
ay Piet,, and just how long are those rod lengths ?? i.e. total length, square key to the other rod end?
cheers
markQLD
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- Location
- QLD Australia
now that would be very much appreciated, thanks Piet. it will make a good datum reference.
& no hurry, i don't do rush rush hurry hurry anymore. and i'm heading down to The Barry later in da week to support our grandad racer.
cheers
& no hurry, i don't do rush rush hurry hurry anymore. and i'm heading down to The Barry later in da week to support our grandad racer.
cheers
markQLD
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- Location
- QLD Australia
now hear this ya dickhead;drikko said:I notice you neglected to mention HOW you were going down to BSFOS Marky, a little slip up there....
i'm farken flying down for farken free ! ok. Marky's on a budget mate ! :-*
,, and after da meeting i'm gunna help worn out old grandad drive all da way back home. so Ian can refill on his fluids! 8)
,,, and ya reported to the hijack police ! (hijack)
LaverdaIan
Hero member
'Nuff of the 'worn out Grandad' shite huh.. 
going to be fresh as a daisy and glowing from a job well done.. and OK, a fluid or two... 
8)
going to be fresh as a daisy and glowing from a job well done.. and OK, a fluid or two... 8)