If you think a Laverda has wiring issues. Look at this.

[1200ts]

I think we are all familiar with the rats nest of wires in a Laverda headlight. Well you have seen nothing until you have worked on a BMW. The bike is a 2003 K1200RS with wiring harness problems. It is from the era where governments wanted things to be recyclable and biodegradable so BMW and others used Soy based wiring which recycles itself while still on the bike! First picture is the start of problems where the sheathing on the harness is falling off and some time in the future the wires will themselves return to the earth. The brake lines are also disintegrating internally which puts crap in to the ABS unit and kills it.

But not to worry, a new wiring harness is only $3840 and the ABS is $2500 which is more than the bike is worth. Last year I had to replace most of the rubber parts on the fuel injection. The bike only has 23000 miles on it.

I hate modern bikes!!!!!!!

 

[henrywillms]

Clearly not an enjoyable project giving you satisfaction of a job well done.

 

[andre g]

I hate modern bikes!!!!!!!
me too
My latest are a 200 Beta Alp from 2016 and a 750 Fomula from 1999.
I also like the idia to use points for normal traveling, it is reliable and easy to repair.

 

[chrisk]

I text one of my customers after picking up his HD….. he replied: did you put it in ‘transport mode’?

Me: Maaaaate ….. of course.
Then I set google to work.

Another ‘something’ to go wrong I presume.

 

[iis_iis]

The CAN protocol was deemed the eliminator for spaghetti looms, then all you needed was a protocol analyser when trouble arrived, ... sic... now also is LIN, only discovered that a few days ago, in that case it was a dedicated polyphase alternator regulator being instructed by an ECU how to produce voltage and current for the down stream load, slow data rate....

Good man Bruce, glasses on... no colour blindness... you have a fighting chance tracing a problem, would be worse if two way serial digital comms imposed on two wire power conductor... cold comfort my speciality.... blue/white to instrument pod... what was i looking for again... grin here..j

 

[Exmoor beast]

I think we are all familiar with the rats nest of wires in a Laverda headlight. Well you have seen nothing until you have worked on a BMW. The bike is a 2003 K1200RS with wiring harness problems. It is from the era where governments wanted things to be recyclable and biodegradable so BMW and others used Soy based wiring which recycles itself while still on the bike! First picture is the start of problems where the sheathing on the harness is falling off and some time in the future the wires will themselves return to the earth. The brake lines are also disintegrating internally which puts crap in to the ABS unit and kills it.

But not to worry, a new wiring harness is only $3840 and the ABS is $2500 which is more than the bike is worth. Last year I had to replace most of the rubber parts on the fuel injection. The bike only has 23000 miles on it.

I hate modern bikes!!!!!!!

View attachment 87363View attachment 87364

I used to be Service manager at a BMW dealership, whilst on a training course I explained we had a serious fault with a loom on K100 ( this was way back..) the head of training asked why I was still working on “old bones like that”as it was ten years old. How do you tell a guy that his flagship BMW is a scrapper after ten years? It’s a car mentality, most franchised Beemer car dealers won’t touch a ten year old vehicle.

 

[nick7]

I used to be Service manager at a BMW dealership, whilst on a training course I explained we had a serious fault with a loom on K100 ( this was way back..) the head of training asked why I was still working on “old bones like that”as it was ten years old. How do you tell a guy that his flagship BMW is a scrapper after ten years? It’s a car mentality, most franchised Beemer car dealers won’t touch a ten year old vehicle.

I had electrical issues with my Canbus equiped BMW R1200ST 2006 a few years back..loom too tight around headstock as standard, needed a fix by ex bmw head technician who works on his own..even then he had to go to bmw twice for some or other codes. Was a breakdown recovery job. Praying the servo brakes, notorious for failing, dont! Apart from that, it is a superb bike..best real world bike I own, of 5. Only one to take me, pillion, hard luggage, 220 miles fuel range, no clanky chain, great handling and power, handles too with Wilburs both ends. Make sure you greade up shaft splines, change the oil for the shaft , gearbox and engine! Need syringe for shaft oil..daft design there...Hope it keeps going..the new bmws cost a bloody fortune!

 

[Laverdalothar]

Stöggi (also on this forum, ex Witt race rider) told me that he went to somewhere in the very north of Germany for a bike electric fix workshop. It was lead by a very skillfull lady that explained everything great.

He made me guess how many control units are on modern bikes. I calculated... "ECU for sure..... what else would you use a controle unite for...? ABS, yeah.... Flashers maybe... or to replace each and every relay?.... so - maybe... 10?"

He laughed out loud... "27 - 30 - at least!" - and that is just on a bike!

I checked the other day on the internet: Cars meanwhile have up to 150

 

[Paul Marx]

I used to be Service manager at a BMW dealership, whilst on a training course I explained we had a serious fault with a loom on K100 ( this was way back..) the head of training asked why I was still working on “old bones like that”as it was ten years old. How do you tell a guy that his flagship BMW is a scrapper after ten years? It’s a car mentality, most franchised Beemer car dealers won’t touch a ten year old vehicle.

Not only BMW.
Two of my sons who own Ducati 748s were politely shown the door at the local Ducati place.
There's no legal obligation for the manufacturer to supply parts after ten years anyway.
Paul

 

[Paul Marx]

Stöggi (also on this forum, ex Witt race rider) told me that he went to somewhere in the very north of Germany for a bike electric fix workshop. It was lead by a very skillfull lady that explained everything great.

He made me guess how many control units are on modern bikes. I calculated... "ECU for sure..... what else would you use a controle unite for...? ABS, yeah.... Flashers maybe... or to replace each and every relay?.... so - maybe... 10?"

He laughed out loud... "27 - 30 - at least!" - and that is just on a bike!

I checked the other day on the internet: Cars meanwhile have up to 150

Some people even put relays and electronic ignitions on Laverdas!
Paul

 

[Laverdalothar]

Some people even put relays and electronic ignitions on Laverdas!
Paul

Devils stuff, I know! They can make a bike perform better, run smoother, improve idle and even prevent battery from draining or cables from melting - without you actually being able to see parts moving!!

Total WICH CRAFT!!! You are a hero not getting tempted to try the dark side of the force!!

But... one day... the force will come for you, little padavan.... it started creeping into your brain already without you knowing it... Mikuni, I just say...

 

[iis_iis]

Come to the dark side, Laverda is your way to salvation, free of amorphous black boxes, no test point diagnostics connector, rather your life in a jumble of wire and faston or bullet connectors, the old ways... indeed, the old...ways.... that never wear out... oh sorry i was carried away then, shock of the new and all that... Laverda ( ex Volvo roundy one ) headlight lurched out at me, upon release the wiring loom devil attacked... bit of a worry old bike and old person in tandem...j

 

[1200ts]

Yes, my local BMW dealer will not work on any bike more than ten years old. Even if they sold you the bike new.

They stated that many or their mechanics would most likely not have received factory training on or even have seen a ten year old model bike. So insurance won't cover them if they are sued by a customer from having the bike serviced by a mechanic who knows little if anything about the bike. The last time I rode my 2003 model, to the dealer for parts, no one but the dealership owner had ever seen one. The crazy prices for parts if you can get them makes the bikes uneconomical to repair as it can quickly exceeds the value of the bike.

Many parts are not available for ten year and older bikes. So telling a customer that they have identified the problem but can't get parts to fix it makes a really pissed off customer.

The K1200RS model I am working on which was last made in 2004, I have so far found out, you cant get brake lines, radiator hoses, or the wiring harness. Even things like rebuild kits for the brakes or even complete calipers and master cylinders are going out of production.

Anyway this bikes electrical problems are now fixed. Besides the sheathing falling off the harness, the main problem was the wiring from the hall effect sensors back to the ECU was open circuit.

Now I have to figure out how to fix the ABS/Power brake unit. The brake lines were falling apart internally and I fear there are now bits of rubber in the ABS.

 

[Paul Marx]

Yes, my local BMW dealer will not work on any bike more than ten years old. Even if they sold you the bike new.

They stated that many or their mechanics would most likely not have received factory training on or even have seen a ten year old model bike. So insurance won't cover them if they are sued by a customer from having the bike serviced by a mechanic who knows little if anything about the bike. The last time I rode my 2003 model, to the dealer for parts, no one but the dealership owner had ever seen one. The crazy prices for parts if you can get them makes the bikes uneconomical to repair as it can quickly exceeds the value of the bike.

Many parts are not available for ten year and older bikes. So telling a customer that they have identified the problem but can't get parts to fix it makes a really pissed off customer.

The K1200RS model I am working on which was last made in 2004, I have so far found out, you cant get brake lines, radiator hoses, or the wiring harness. Even things like rebuild kits for the brakes or even complete calipers and master cylinders are going out of production.

Anyway this bikes electrical problems are now fixed. Besides the sheathing falling off the harness, the main problem was the wiring from the hall effect sensors back to the ECU was open circuit.

Now I have to figure out how to fix the ABS/Power brake unit. The brake lines were falling apart internally and I fear there are now bits of rubber in the ABS.

Why people insist on riding these things when they could ride a 750 Laverda to the same effect and have it repaired by the local blacksmith in case of major problems is beyond me.
Paul

 

[Vince]

That's why I enjoy those Bearded Mechanic videos so much, they are just so basic an idiot like me could fix them.

 

[sfcpiet]

Why people insist on riding these things when they could ride a 750 Laverda to the same effect and have it repaired by the local blacksmith in case of major problems is beyond me.
Paul

"Modern" bikes offer ease of handling, comfort and sometimes, a bit more power (for those who "need" it ). These "advantages" come at a high price, exhorbitant maintenance and repair costs, early redundancy and rapid depreciation. But this has been so for decades, remember when Laverdas were just "old bikes" and could be snapped up cheaply?

Todays' bikes are not meant to last 20+ years (and many won't even come close!), you're supposed to slap down a thick wad of cash on the dealers' desk every 3-4 years and wipe your mouth for the pittance you recieve for your "old" bike in order to be seen on the newest, flashiest the market has to offer. Same applies even more so to the car market. This seems to work just great for a large portion of the targeted demographics... sustainability doesn't matter a rats' arse, only profit on the industrys' part and ego-boost for the consumers.

That quite a few modern vehicles do last far longer than expected (ie, not thrown in the skip prematurely) is testimony to their build quality and quality of materials used, which are actually far superior to old clunkers, of which many are by now more like grandpas' axe.

piet

 

[Paul Marx]

"Modern" bikes offer ease of handling, comfort and sometimes, a bit more power (for those who "need" it ). These "advantages" come at a high price, exhorbitant maintenance and repair costs, early redundancy and rapid depreciation. But this has been so for decades, remember when Laverdas were just "old bikes" and could be snapped up cheaply?

Todays' bikes are not meant to last 20+ years (and many won't even come close!), you're supposed to slap down a thick wad of cash on the dealers' desk every 3-4 years and wipe your mouth for the pittance you recieve for your "old" bike in order to be seen on the newest, flashiest the market has to offer. Same applies even more so to the car market. This seems to work just great for a large portion of the targeted demographics... sustainability doesn't matter a rats' arse, only profit on the industrys' part and ego-boost for the consumers.

That quite a few modern vehicles do last far longer than expected (ie, not thrown in the skip prematurely) is testimony to their build quality and quality of materials used, which are actually far superior to old clunkers, of which many are by now more like grandpas' axe.

piet

Most modern vehicles are extremely reliable but when they suffer a major breakdown, they're not designed to be repaired, there's nobody around who knows how to and there's no parts available after 10 years.

Laverdas are still old bikes though sometimes quite expensive. When they were cheap, they were ridden.

The bike market is the same as the car market, only for sunny days.

Paul

 

[Laverdalothar]

If I look into how many engines have been completely overhauled on my bikes, what I spent on upgrading the suspension, do all the repairs etc. etc. etc., I might have spent less buying a new bike every - let's say - 5 years...

I just haven't found a modern bike that attracts my attention enough to buy it. My wife allways says: "Why do you do that to yourself? Why not buy a bike that you simple go into the garage, turn the key and off you go, just changing oil and tires?"

Sometimes I think she might have a point there. Then I start the Laverda and think: maaaaan.... no modern bike can give you that...

 

[sfcpiet]

If I look into how many engines have been completely overhauled on my bikes, what I spent on upgrading the suspension, do all the repairs etc. etc. etc., I might have spent less buying a new bike every - let's say - 5 years...

I just haven't found a modern bike that attracts my attention enough to buy it. My wife allways says: "Why do you do that to yourself? Why not buy a bike that you simple go into the garage, turn the key and off you go, just changing oil and tires?"

Sometimes I think she might have a point there. Then I start the Laverda and think: maaaaan.... no modern bike can give you that...

Once an old clunker has been thoroughly attended to, there's nothing keeping you from doing just that. Years of neglect and abuse take their toll and make life a pita, but once everything is as it should be and just a little care is taken, even old bikes can be surprisingly reliable. I certainly cannot complain, my newest bike is the '83 RGS, still on its' un-opened engine and largely original electrics. All it's needed the last 15 years were oil, chains, pads and tyres. I restored my 750GTL in 1994 and it hasn't had any more issues than a new bike might have had. Over all the years, I think I've spent less on my bikes than I would have lost through depreciation had I done as the industry/society expects of me (with the same number of bikes).

piet

 

[iis_iis]

Indeed, Laverda's have always got me home, and from a long way away from home.... Build quality is a key component, for the era. Plenty of mechanical strength built in, tolerance to partial failures and or rectification on the roadside. Not all was so, the notorious periods of wrong engineering, rectified in that period.

Just had to overhaul my 2000 TLR, front and back seized solid brakes, hydraulic leak master/slave failure, tank surface contamination that seized the fuel pump, ( i now disassemble these FI pumps and free them up, 2 bikes and one car to date ), electrics are good, just one ECU. Battery moved to the tail section, was next to the left side of the motor. Starts on the button, as Japanese engines tend to do. Parts, who knows... then thanks to Laverda home skills, ( am ) very good at tracking down parts or fabricating my own. As we all here do, become a versatile mechanic and electrical person, skills not sort in modern times, though i suspect would be, should the cell phone fail and the local dealer workshop says.."too old... you and bike.." Tangible and the non tangible, fairly clever lot here... imposed and sought. We are resourceful j.