Ignitech help

war120

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perthshire
Hi guys i am fitting an tcip4 to the dmc-2 photocell on my 120 Jota. does anyone know where the black brown and yellow wires go to the ignitec unit? Also what does each of the 3 wires are ground, power supply, signal ?

cheers chris
 
The Honeywell is well obsolete, purpose of locating a workalike replacement, as Rob indicates one such available device. Perhaps you have an original HOA, hard to imagine the developer finding time to engineer a one off for an obsoleted device. Better energies directed towards the available device, buy a few spares and others have adapted the transplant, or were here over the years. Reward for effort is the premise of my post. j
 
Am I missing something here, or wouldn't it just make more sense to ditch the signalling paraphernalia and get a modern Hall Effect setup compatible with the TCPi4 ... aren't Red's trigger plate and sensor kits plug and play?
 
Hm, when i'm right, the iis doesn't work with optical Sensor.

Iis offers Groundplate and Sensor.
Not expensive.
 
Has anyone fitted this module with the original pick ups?
Are you talking about the Ignitech TPIC4? The short answer is yes. I've fitted them with the original Laverda pickups. It works perfectly well as long as your pickups are OK.

The longer answer is that you can use pretty much any pickup technology that exists. I've fitted them to bikes with VR (coil/magnet) pickups as per the original pickups on Laverda triples. I've also used Hall pickups (as Red does with his kits). I've not used optical pickups with Ignitech units myself but I'm aware of others that have. But you need to specify the pickup technology you'll be using when you order the unit from Ignitech.

Since Ignitech builds each unit for the type of pickups you specify, it seems logical to assume that individual ignition modules will only work properly with the type of pickup they're designed for, and you can't simply swap the pickup technology for a particular module. That's because the different types of pickup send quite different signal pulses to the ignition module, so the module needs different circuitry to process the incoming signal.

For example, a hall sensor produces a square wave pulse of pretty much constant amplitude (as does an optical pickup), whereas a VR pickup produces a more rounded pulse (like part of a sine wave) that increases in amplitude with engine revs.

I suspect a unit designed for optical sensors could also use Hall sensors because they both produce square wave signals, but you'll need to confirm the pulse polarity is correct. Either type of sensor can produce either a positive or negative voltage pulse.

Having said all that, it's worth noting that I don't have a comprehensive understanding about how the little electronic brains of ignition modules work like John (IIS) does. Perhaps a module designed for a square wave signal will still fire a spark plug with a non-square wave input (and vice-versa), but I'd expect the timing would be off. So if it does actually work, I reckon it would need a revs-dependent correction applied to the timing curve.
 
Warning! Technical read to help sleeping patterns...

As you indicate Cam, front end circuitry, is as a guide, specific technology aligned. IIS was originally based around the VR sensor with a missing tooth gear wheel, assigned to crank or cam timing in a 4 stroke motor, IIS was also originally applied to my two stroke Suzuki GT750, as a "CDI".

Missing tooth also incorporated a trial of optical high resolution encoder wheel from HP and a slotted precision opto sensor to decode the position of the segments, as many as 256 ( or 360/1024 from memory ) 256 aligns to 8 bits while 360 required 9 bits, 1024 10 bits, was also a quad output device so could encode forward and reverse shaft direction. Cumbersome to deal with a Uprocc of 8 bits architecture, simplified. Also on the optical precise disc was an index tract, very clever and while not very expensive, the project was getting complicated.

Jump forward, slotted simple opto coupler was produced for road trials, iis was designed on a hard segment for trigger event, while other opticals ( Lumention for one ) and DMC, this technique has a major design flaw in my view, the sensor transistor was cut off most of the rotation, then illuminated for the trigger event, leaving the signal line back to the ignition module susceptible to external electrical interference. The obvious methodology is too invert that function, "grounding" the sense wire(s) back to the module and hence far less susceptible to external noise. My background included design and calibration of Oil refinery metering equipment, erroneous signals a no no.

Off we went, simple slotted opto and the reports were positive. Yet i knew an optical device is not best for reliability inside a crank case cover or indeed oil ( ducati VR's live in the engine oil bathing ). Fabricated an intermediate opto to Hall Effect encoder pcb, the slotted opto had a NPN transistor buffering the output to ignition module. I could then test the module front end to be the final Hall Effect IIS, all the while using the slotted opto option while the new HE pcb was designed and field proven, first with Neodymium Curie Point was too low, then onto Samarium Cobolt.

Stayed with Unipolar HE devices while others chose Bipolar or latching, that was the final design, however the iis used current sense switching not voltage. This allowed for maximum EMI robustness in crank encoder to module wiring, did not use 4-20ma loop rather just a 0-20mA loop circuitry, which for little reduction in reliability a visual led for each sensor including TDC on the crank pcb, and a further opto coupler at the module end, ensuring maximum interference robustness. Being current triggered, no loss of sense voltage mattered overall.

A slotted opto had purpose for initial R and D plus assessment pending properly engineered robust technology as HE offered in all matters. HTH j.
 
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For VR's the best by far is this dedicated IC, powered all the iis dedicated ( Ducati ) modules. Did a HE version in oil bath also, with incorporated temperature sensor inside the small T shape Bosch footprint and mounting holes. Detected on a MIllie S2 Oz high summer 140C degrees oil temperature when stalled in traffic. Riveting.... to me yes...a smile. j
 

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Are you talking about the Ignitech TPIC4? The short answer is yes. I've fitted them with the original Laverda pickups. It works perfectly well as long as your pickups are OK.

The longer answer is that you can use pretty much any pickup technology that exists. I've fitted them to bikes with VR (coil/magnet) pickups as per the original pickups on Laverda triples. I've also used Hall pickups (as Red does with his kits). I've not used optical pickups with Ignitech units myself but I'm aware of others that have. But you need to specify the pickup technology you'll be using when you order the unit from Ignitech.

Since Ignitech builds each unit for the type of pickups you specify, it seems logical to assume that individual ignition modules will only work properly with the type of pickup they're designed for, and you can't simply swap the pickup technology for a particular module. That's because the different types of pickup send quite different signal pulses to the ignition module, so the module needs different circuitry to process the incoming signal.

For example, a hall sensor produces a square wave pulse of pretty much constant amplitude (as does an optical pickup), whereas a VR pickup produces a more rounded pulse (like part of a sine wave) that increases in amplitude with engine revs.

I suspect a unit designed for optical sensors could also use Hall sensors because they both produce square wave signals, but you'll need to confirm the pulse polarity is correct. Either type of sensor can produce either a positive or negative voltage pulse.

Having said all that, it's worth noting that I don't have a comprehensive understanding about how the little electronic brains of ignition modules work like John (IIS) does. Perhaps a module designed for a square wave signal will still fire a spark plug with a non-square wave input (and vice-versa), but I'd expect the timing would be off. So if it does actually work, I reckon it would need a revs-dependent correction applied to the timing curve.
Brilliant thanks for the info
Steve
 
Blimey John. I never cease to be awed by your electronics know-how.
I can do power wiring (it's about as clever as plumbing) but my brain fails me when it comes to those little semiconductor things. IC's work by magic as far as I can work out.
 
Blimey John. I never cease to be awed by your electronics know-how.
I can do power wiring (it's about as clever as plumbing) but my brain fails me when it comes to those little semiconductor things. IC's work by magic as far as I can work out.
The science fiction writer Arthur C Clark said many years ago that “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”.
 
My 84 RGS has the orignal pickups and coils ( ballast disconnected ) with ignitech ignition. The wiring from the pickups had to be completely reinsulated when I first got it but it's worked fine ever since.
 
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