Ignitech Ignition - Inductive sensor Vs Hall effect

GregT said:
I know of one Yamaha twin owner who solved his cold starting problems by arranging for an additional 6v battery to be switched in when he hit the starter - and yes, it gave 18V to the ignition too. I wouldn't have recommended it....
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If the second battery is only switched in when the starter is activated, then I reckon the system voltage would probably still be in the 12V ballpark because of voltage depression on high load.
 
Magnetic/Optic/Hall triggers are OK when their working but nothing beats points for management because when points fail, it only take a few minutes with cleaner, screw driver and file or 400 grit sandpaper and feelers to get get you going; in other words, your dead on the side of the road with an Electronic Ignition.

To bad points are hard to find these days. For sure VW Beetle points fit Breganzie 750's with minor mods to either the points or the distributor plate.

You would be supersized how long a point system will last providing you protect the environment that encases the points from water and engine oil sweat.

Points can do 8000+ rpm with something like a parallel MSD Module that really isn't required.
 
I've got a Guzzi MK2 Lemon that WAS fitted with an electronic system. Rod Rocket, (now passed) a very knowledgeable Guzzi bloke advised refitting points.

His explanation was that when an electronic ignition is turned on they often fire the plugs. He knew of a few bikes that had caught fire, normally when wound over a bit without starting, turned off, then on again....bang.
 
I'd be surprised if any modern electronic ignitions fire the plugs when switched on. But a points ignition certainly has the potential to do that. Perhaps more likely is a spark when the ignition is switched off (same effect as opening the points). So I don't think your mate Rod was eliminating the problem by running points ignition.

Even if there is a spurious spark, it's difficult to see how the bike would burst into flames unless it's a leaky old heap of crap with fuel all over the place.

I'm pretty sure Ignitech systems only energise the coils when the engine is actually turning over. You can program the number of crank revolutions when starting the engine before the system switches the sparks on. The purpose being to avoid such issues as you describe, or the undesirable event of firing one cylinder against a hydraulically locked one.
 
Dellortoman said:
You can program the number of crank revolutions when starting the engine before the system switches the sparks on. The purpose being to avoid such issues as you describe, or the undesirable event of firing one cylinder against a hydraulically locked one.
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we use this number of crank revolutions before ignition function to give the starter motor and starter clutch time to fully engage and gain some momentum before the engine fires, works well

 
Dellortoman said:
I'd be surprised if any modern electronic ignitions fire the plugs when switched on. But a points ignition certainly has the potential to do that. Perhaps more likely is a spark when the ignition is switched off (same effect as opening the points). So I don't think your mate Rod was eliminating the problem by running points ignition.

Even if there is a spurious spark, it's difficult to see how the bike would burst into flames unless it's a leaky old heap of crap with fuel all over the place.

I'm pretty sure Ignitech systems only energise the coils when the engine is actually turning over. You can program the number of crank revolutions when starting the engine before the system switches the sparks on. The purpose being to avoid such issues as you describe, or the undesirable event of firing one cylinder against a hydraulically locked one.
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Modern ignitions, need to define please, seems the Sasche's does.... ( my bikes fitted with do )
 
Brett said:
Modern ignitions, need to define please, seems the Sasche's does.... ( my bikes fitted with do )
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Same with the DMC, waiting for my RGS to start up one of these days, just by switching it on.  :D

piet
 
sfcpiet said:
Same with the DMC, waiting for my RGS to start up one of these days, just by switching it on.  :D

piet
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Hmmm, mine did once :o (believe it or not) planets all must have been aligned.........................

(I had been mucking around sorting a few things out - so not like just went in the shed turned it on and bingo!! :D)
 
sfcpiet said:
Same with the DMC, waiting for my RGS to start up one of these days, just by switching it on.  :D

piet
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Most dyna's up to the 2000 also spark when turned on. Useful for surprising bystanders when it's a bike with open carbs....
 
Brett said:
Modern ignitions, need to define please, seems the Sasche's does.... ( my bikes fitted with do )
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OK, I should have said well designed ignitions  :D

I have a dumb Dyna ignition on my Guzzi (was already on the bike when I bought it). It also energises one or both of the coils when the engine is stopped. If I'm doing any electrical testing on the bike that requires the ignition to be switched on, I disconnect the coils otherwise they get too bloody hot.

I call the Dyna dumb because it has no clever features at all, not even an advance map. All it does is make sparks. Spark advance comes from the original mechanical advance in the Guzzi distributor. Installation of an Ignitech is on the wish list. My preferred way to do it is to disable (or remove) the mechanical advance and fit a hall sensor board in the dizzy.

Non-energising of coils until they're required is another reason to choose Ignitech in my opinion. The guys who make them have put a lot of thought into the design.
 
we installed an Ignitech system on my mates EVO Harley recently, used a Series 1 Laverda hall effect trigger board but just used one trigger, custom alloy rotor with two sets of magnets for the two cylinders. Have since removed the board in the photo and exchanged it with a board with only one trigger.
Bike was running some oddball fuel injection engine management system that fried itself so we came up with this set up, went back to carbs at the same time
Few days later we took the EVO to the dyno and we picked up 12 horsepower over the fuel injection system
pretty neat set up

Harley ignition
 
redax5 said:
picked up 12 horsepower over the fuel injection system
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I suspect the fuel injection system was tuned for low emissions rather than horsepower.

I have an idea somewhere in the dusty corners of my brain that Lex had made, or was in the process of making a Hall pickup board for Guzzi distributors. I might shoot him an email to see if that's correct. I may have just dreamed it.
 
Legs said:
Any consideration given to optical triggers?
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I think also another key requirement is that the components and constructions should be designed for automotive use or at least more temperature, vibration and corrosion durability is needed on many cases. Even more requirements than just standard automotive grade if inside engine.

I know a lot of electrical components designed for indoor electronics and still put on vehicles. Then the reliability may be questionable on some cases. It's interesting this problem can be found on many modern vehicles and solutions but not on most old vehicles in where all of those few electrical components used to be automotive/suitable grade.

I think I have seen more optical sensors than hall effect sensors used for crankshaft position measurements which are actually not designed to work inside engine.
 
Legs said:
Any consideration given to optical triggers?
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no, John Wilson of IIS fame told me around 20 years that he changed to Hall Effect from Optical because of the operating constraints involved, mainly temperature related
though triggers designed 20 years ago are probably far inferior to the triggers available now so that may not be such a concern anymore

 
Had mine fitted for well over ten years without any problems. Admire the simplicity, no other electrical components within the engine confines.
 
ghwallice said:
I've got a Guzzi MK2 Lemon that WAS fitted with an electronic system. Rod Rocket, (now passed) a very knowledgeable Guzzi bloke advised refitting points.

His explanation was that when an electronic ignition is turned on they often fire the plugs. He knew of a few bikes that had caught fire, normally when wound over a bit without starting, turned off, then on again....bang.
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hahaha

I've got a Sasche on the LeMan 3 and I've wired the kill switch so the engine will crank over no matter what position the switch is in, just no spark when in the off position. Works great for running comp tests etc without stuffing the ignition. Crank her over a couple of seconds, full throttle, kill switch in off position. Kill switch on, full throttle, hit the start button - kaboom. Great for making the patched brethren dive for cover at the servo  :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Never had a fire.
 
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