Improving Marzocchi AG series shock absorbers

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filip

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Croatia
I recently acquired a pair of Marzocchi AG1 shocks and from what I've read online most people agree that they're not the best, I plan to use them on a racing project I've been planning for a while now.

For now I already have most of the supplies ready, fresh oil, proper springs for my weight and I plan to buy a rebuild kit as well(bushes, seals, gas bladder..).

Is there anything else I can do to make these better? Different shim stack and or oil height? Also is there a specific manual for this model? I know there's a zillion Strada manuals online but none for the AG1..:(
 
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The Sock said:
Tie a brick to them and throw them into the sea?


I ran them, for a mercifully short time, back in the early '80s. They were awful..
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I ride a 50cc gp bike on them rn and they are much better than whatever the previous guy put on the bike, for now I'll just service them (oil and rebuild), get them visually looking good and try to flip them online, apparently YSS makes good replacement shocks..

Also is what would be a good set of shocks from that time? Ceriani, Paioli.. or is it basically the same thing. The class I race in fortnunately doesn't care if the suspension's period correct.
 
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If you are racing,it would be a waste of money to buy shocks that are not fully adjustable. Nothing will be perfectly valved from the supplier, no matter how good they are.

Perhaps a look through what these guys offer will give an idea of what is available: brooksuspension.co.uk
 
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Alzero said:
If you are racing,it would be a waste of money to buy shocks that are not fully adjustable. Nothing will be perfectly valved from the supplier, no matter how good they are.

Perhaps a look through what these guys offer will give an idea of what is available: brooksuspension.co.uk
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Thanks :D, they really got a lot of stuff. YSS really caught my eye, they seem well built and adjustable ones (preload and rebound) are 300ish eur
 
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I always liked the looks of them, so when a (very tatty) pair came with a bike I bought, I decided to restore them and try them on the ex Larry Strung SFC.
I am using them on the race track only where they work fine. Admittedly I only race on some of the best race tracks in the world, Assen, Francorchamps, Nürburgring (the F1 track) where they don’t have a lot of work to do, but Francorchamps has some of the most intimidating high speed corners in the world too, where the SFC remains as on rails.

No idea how they behave on bumpy tracks, but I rode it at Croix en Ternois in France too without issues, which is far from perfect.

Marnix
 

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MarnixSFC said:
I always liked the looks of them, so when a (very tatty) pair came with a bike I bought, I decided to restore them and try them on the ex Larry Strung SFC.
I am using them on the race track only where they work fine. Admittedly I only race on some of the best race tracks in the world, Assen, Francorchamps, Nürburgring (the F1 track) where they don’t have a lot of work to do, but Francorchamps has some of the most intimidating high speed corners in the world too, where the SFC remains as on rails.

No idea how they behave on bumpy tracks, but I rode it at Croix en Ternois in France too without issues, which is far from perfect.

Marnix
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Is the front end of that brake torque arm on Larry's bike frame mounted, Marnix? if so it will be working as a pro-lift, when what you really want is pro-squat or at the very least, neutral. As a greenhorn I had my first homemade rear disc set up like that and realised it made the rear end very harsh and juddery under brakes. I underslung the caliper and placed the frame mount for the torque arm above the swingarm pivot, which was VERY pro-dive. I loved it but for the SFQ I dialled it back a bit. It's still subtly pro-squat and it gives excellent and controlled braking on rough surfaces.
 
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piranha-bro2 said:
Is the front end of that brake torque arm on Larry's bike frame mounted, Marnix? if so it will be working as a pro-lift, when what you really want is pro-squat or at the very least, neutral. As a greenhorn I had my first homemade rear disc set up like that and realised it made the rear end very harsh and juddery under brakes. I underslung the caliper and placed the frame mount for the torque arm above the swingarm pivot, which was VERY pro-dive. I loved it but for the SFQ I dialled it back a bit. It's still subtly pro-squat and it gives excellent and controlled braking on rough surfaces.
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Oil the pads lightly and the pro-squat/dive disappears... ;)

My 3C has the solid underslung caliper connected to a lug on the swingarm, the RGS has the floating underslung caliper connected to the rear of the lower footrest plate mount on the frame, really cannot say I feel any difference in terms of chassis behaviour under brakes. Big difference though in bike weight as well as braking performance, 220mm disc on the 3C which works well enough, 240mm on the RGS is only marginal and quickly overwhelmed under repeated heavy use. Good thing the front brakes on both are more than up to the job!

Floating rear calipers have disappeared on modern production bikes, not even used in MotoX any more either.

Oh yeah... to remain on the topic of Strada pogo sticks. I'm in the "chuck 'em in the pond" group, never been a fan and never come across a pair that actually worked well on the road. Most leaked quicker than they could be re-built. Billiard-table quality track is probably all they can cope with, no great damping demands there.

piet
 
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piranha-bro2 said:
Is the front end of that brake torque arm on Larry's bike frame mounted, Marnix? if so it will be working as a pro-lift, when what you really want is pro-squat or at the very least, neutral. As a greenhorn I had my first homemade rear disc set up like that and realised it made the rear end very harsh and juddery under brakes. I underslung the caliper and placed the frame mount for the torque arm above the swingarm pivot, which was VERY pro-dive. I loved it but for the SFQ I dialled it back a bit. It's still subtly pro-squat and it gives excellent and controlled braking on rough surfaces.
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Yes it’s frame mounted, and I know it’s the wrong way ‘round, but it’s not easy to let the caliper hang, because the megaphone is in the way. Didn’t want to weld the swingarm either, so I left the construction as Larry Strung used to raced it. I never, or hardly ever, touch the rear brake on the race track, so can’t really comment on the functionality, other than that it’s a fine handling machine. The low weight of just below 170 kilos of this example surely plays a role, possibly also in the functioning of the Marzocchis. Or maybe I was just lucky with the oil I used, who knows.

Marnix
 
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Falcon shocks don't seem to have been mentioned. A cost effective alternative to Maxton which I use on my RGS and 750. These cost me £302. Springs are supplied according to your weight (and the bike!) Available in 360 and 365mm lengths. They can be fitted either way up.
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If you want to splash the cash, aluminum bodied with screw thread collar preload adjustment are £440
 
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The pic of Marnix bike raised a question - the shocks mentioned by Filip are AG 1, not the AG Strada many of us have crappy experiences with. So - not sure what the differences are (other than the obvious, outside design), but I suppose they are different to the AG Strada.

Also, it might be he has to use - depending of the class he is racing in - original or period components, which would make it difficult to use YSS potentially. If there are no limitations regarding the usage of shocks, YSS are very good compromise between money and usage. Standard for them is though a bit on the hard side regarding the spring. might not be bad for a race bike though, just on the street and with a light bike and rider, they might come with the wrong spring if you don't change that on your order.

I have Wilbers on the 1000 SFC and YSS on the Jota. I am quite heavy, but got both sorted to my riding style. I use the one with just rebound adjuster (well - kind of... it actually also closes the compression, but not to an extreme) as my seat wouldn't have allowed for the one ones with the reservoir and at that time, others with separate adjustment weren't available. I have them on the bike now for roughly 30.000km, no leaks, no issues whatsoever. Even used them on the track (see avatar), which was in Spa Francorchamps; also road on the VERY short track of Croix en Ternois and was able to hunt a Triumph rider in corners with my limited skills; seems his were even more limited though 😂. Andre with the race 1000 SFC chaised his friend on a Ducati 996 having fully adjustable Öhlins on his... That said, Andre is a VERY experienced and great rider!)
 
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Laverdalothar said:
The pic of Marnix bike raised a question - the shocks mentioned by Filip are AG 1, not the AG Strada many of us have crappy experiences with. So - not sure what the differences are (other than the obvious, outside design), but I suppose they are different to the AG Strada.

Also, it might be he has to use - depending of the class he is racing in - original or period components, which would make it difficult to use YSS potentially. If there are no limitations regarding the usage of shocks, YSS are very good compromise between money and usage. Standard for them is though a bit on the hard side regarding the spring. might not be bad for a race bike though, just on the street and with a light bike and rider, they might come with the wrong spring if you don't change that on your order.

I have Wilbers on the 1000 SFC and YSS on the Jota. I am quite heavy, but got both sorted to my riding style. I use the one with just rebound adjuster (well - kind of... it actually also closes the compression, but not to an extreme) as my seat wouldn't have allowed for the one ones with the reservoir and at that time, others with separate adjustment weren't available. I have them on the bike now for roughly 30.000km, no leaks, no issues whatsoever. Even used them on the track (see avatar), which was in Spa Francorchamps; also road on the VERY short track of Croix en Ternois and was able to hunt a Triumph rider in corners with my limited skills; seems his were even more limited though 😂. Andre with the race 1000 SFC chaised his friend on a Ducati 996 having fully adjustable Öhlins on his... That said, Andre is a VERY experienced and great rider!)
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Thanks, Lothar, maybe I was!
 
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Marzocchi also made a shock with aledagly 4 clicks of adjustable damping called Symol. I have a vague memory that they might have been an option on SFC triples along with Corsa Cxxxx, I forget that shock's name. I have a set on my Pantah which are too short for triples. I had the local suspension bloke rebuild them and fitted appropriate springs for my lard arse. That damping adjustment seems to be a figment of imagination, as I cannot feel any difference, and the $400 I spent would have been better served buying something, anything better. There bloody harsh as hell.
 
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Vince said:
Marzocchi also made a shock with aledagly 4 clicks of adjustable damping called Symol. I have a vague memory that they might have been an option on SFC triples along with Corsa Cxxxx, I forget that shock's name. I have a set on my Pantah which are too short for triples. I had the local suspension bloke rebuild them and fitted appropriate springs for my lard arse. That damping adjustment seems to be a figment of imagination, as I cannot feel any difference, and the $400 I spent would have been better served buying something, anything better. There bloody harsh as hell.
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Marzocchi Symbol, no affiliation to the music artist ;) , gold-coloured reservoir with black plastic caps iIrc... reputation was worse than that of the Stradas! Came as OE on 1000SFC until Mr.Witt specified Konis for the german market bikes.

piet
 
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