Laverda 750 SF3 more help please (ignition)

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Spondon440

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Stockport
I posted for help previously when I was getting a rev limiter issue with my ignitech ignition, well I'm here again, sorted the rev issue with an alternative map but the new map gave me fueling issues, I went through every pilot jet from a 50 to a 65 but it made no sense really, it would run great at higher revs but would bog down and stall at low revs when setting off, anyway (and I'm prepared to be corrected) I decided it was a map issue, I basically edited the map two (in blue) to map 1 (in red which I'm running now) which basically copies the original advance curve (the one that had the incorrect pickup info and would only rev to 4500 rpm ) I know confusing sorry.

Anyway, plenty of people who know more than me on here so could anyone advise me what the ideal advance curve should be, its running quite well on the red curve now but can I improve this?
Thanks for any help
Andymap 1.jpg
 
I agree about the merits of electronic ignition versus points and would like to convert mine, but when I read problems that some have had, it makes me hesitant. it seems that buying one with the best support is crucial. best of luck sorting yours out, I,m sure someone will chime in.
 
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Ab9ut to fit one of Red's ignitech systems to the SFC so I'm entering into a new world myself. I don't do computer technology so I'm hoping it's all set up and ready to go. The Motodd has a Sachse system so no computers involved.
Good luck
 
Need to know how the new map differed from the old one. IIUC the original fix was simply to alter the crank vs ignition speed. I've attached a pic of one of my curves if you want a comparison. Probably not exactly what I have now, but will be close. Mine is 880cc hi-comp with a 5C cam and various other go-fast changes, but the curve isn't too dissimilar from your red one (I think mine advances more slowly and reaches a lower max at lower revs).

Igni V96 0-deg base.jpg
 
motoddrob said:
Ab9ut to fit one of Red's ignitech systems to the SFC so I'm entering into a new world myself. I don't do computer technology so I'm hoping it's all set up and ready to go. The Motodd has a Sachse system so no computers involved.
Good luck
Click to expand...
I doubt it will be ready to go, Rob. As long as the settings are correct for Bike page and Misc page your curve is not hard to set. Things in the Bike page like Classic, Special Setting, One-two pickup, One Ignition per 2 Revolutions are important to have right - if Red's unit is running a wasted spark you'll need to have a different setting than if there's no wasted spark.

What wasn't intuitive for me at the very start (much to Red's annoyance :cool: ) was stuff like being able to hover the cursor over the RPM and change it, allowing you to reduce or increase the gaps between advance points. Like you, i wasn't particularly tech savvy - and using a slightly flaky old PC felt very clunky at first after a Mac - so it can take a bit of head scratching and asking (stupid) questions to get a handle on it. The stuff that's still beyond me relates to settings like Dwell and all those milliseconds.

Even learning that you have to hit 'Program' to install the info you've set up on screen isn't immediately obvious, ie what you have on screen is in your laptop only, NOT in your black box - until you program it, and then you'll get the nice yellow message stating that 'settings in PC and TCPi4 are identical' (on screen and in black box).
 
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Andy, post up a couple of more photos showing the "Bike" page and the "Miscellaneous" page
 
misc1.jpgbike 1.jpgcurve 1.jpg



OK everything there, just to clarify, the red curve is what I've edited and the bike is running ok on and the blue one was what it ran aweful on.
For those considering going down this avenue, I've not found it that complicated to be honest, there have been some very helpful people on here and if I had a better understanding of the effect the advance curve has on the engine I could sort it, I don't but at the end of the process I'll have a better understanding which is all good.
 
It's surprising how small changes to the curve affect what your arse feels. Found that when Brett was adjusting mine. It's been a long while, but he made probably 10 small changes during that ride, stop and out with the Laptop, a click on the curve, and it redraws itself with a click on the cursor. Stop and ask how it was, improved or not. That took maybe an hour on that ride. That effect is on the pace of acceleration, either smooth and strong or flat. The difference was noticeable, or at least to me. Test it without earplugs so you really hear any pinging. That was years back. I expect the brains trust has kept a database on what curve works on what engine configuration over the years, and it's close to plug and play these days. I also remember passing on to Mark M the drawings of advance curves for John's ignition, which I had from John's very detailed instruction manual, so he could compare them. My ignition has been flawless for quite a few years.
 
on the "Bike" page, change the rev limiter to something that is more in line with a 750 twin engine, I set it at 7,800 rpm
Look to the right
Change Dwell Correction to 115%
Change Dwell Dynamic to 20%
Change Max Dwell Time to 12,500

Above really depends on what brand of Ignition coils you are using, I prefer Nology Pro-Fire ignition coils (made by PVL in Germany) and those are the Dwell settings I use with them but first and I think you have already done it looking at your file name, save existing Ignition Map to your Laptop hard drive in a Folder called Ignitech or something like that and give it a name you can remember
That way you can always revert back to a Master Map if shit goes wrong

I don't see anything wrong on either the "Miscellaneous" or the "Advance" pages, all settings make sense to me and are very close to what I use on the 750 engines
Remember to click on "Program" once you make any changes to the Ignition map

Only real difference is that I set my Base Advance to 1 degree on all my Ignition systems as with my Hall Effect boards I set the piston at TDC and then time the Ignition by turning on the LED light on the board by a South magnet and then off by the North magnet, at the point that the LED light goes out that is where I lock the Magnetic rotor
I have found the Ignitech box does not really like that setting to be zero which it is so I set it to 1 degree and then just design the advance map accordingly

By setting the Base Advance at 1 degree it helps the Starter clutch when trying to start the engine as the engine basically sees no advance when on the Starter motor, that is particularly helpful on the later Series 2 and RGS engines which have a less robust Starter clutch set up due to the design change
My 1st Advance step is at 600 rpm where it goes to 9 degrees which is what you have anyway

What Ignition coils are you using ?
Hopefully not Dyna mini series coils, never had any luck with them
 
redax5 said:
on the "Bike" page, change the rev limiter to something that is more in line with a 750 twin engine, I set it at 7,800 rpm
Look to the right
Change Dwell Correction to 115%
Change Dwell Dynamic to 20%
Change Max Dwell Time to 12,500

Above really depends on what brand of Ignition coils you are using, I prefer Nology Pro-Fire ignition coils (made by PVL in Germany) and those are the Dwell settings I use with them but first and I think you have already done it looking at your file name, save existing Ignition Map to your Laptop hard drive in a Folder called Ignitech or something like that and give it a name you can remember
That way you can always revert back to a Master Map if shit goes wrong

I don't see anything wrong on either the "Miscellaneous" or the "Advance" pages, all settings make sense to me and are very close to what I use on the 750 engines
Remember to click on "Program" once you make any changes to the Ignition map

Only real difference is that I set my Base Advance to 1 degree on all my Ignition systems as with my Hall Effect boards I set the piston at TDC and then time the Ignition by turning on the LED light on the board by a South magnet and then off by the North magnet, at the point that the LED light goes out that is where I lock the Magnetic rotor
I have found the Ignitech box does not really like that setting to be zero which it is so I set it to 1 degree and then just design the advance map accordingly

By setting the Base Advance at 1 degree it helps the Starter clutch when trying to start the engine as the engine basically sees no advance when on the Starter motor, that is particularly helpful on the later Series 2 and RGS engines which have a less robust Starter clutch set up due to the design change
My 1st Advance step is at 600 rpm where it goes to 9 degrees which is what you have anyway

What Ignition coils are you using ?
Hopefully not Dyna mini series coils, never had any luck with them
Click to expand...
Thanks Redax,
I made all the changes at the top of the page, not ridden it yet but will in the morning, doesn't seem to have had any ill effects .
Not really sure on the coils because I can't find any writing on them but I've attached some pictures.
I set up the the ignition pretty much exactly how you described.
I also changed the curve as you describe with the 1 deg advance.
Looking forward to riding it tomorrow.
Andy
coil 1.jpgcoil 2.jpgcoil 3.jpgcoil 4.jpg
 
your coil is identical to the Nology coils I use but are most likely PVL if Keith sourced them out of Europe but I always thought the PVL coils had writing on them, never seen those coils without

that looks to me to be a Dual coil which is fine on a 750 due to the 360 degree configuration
but in your settings on the "Bike" page it specifies that you have two coils, which you do not
see selection box marked "number of outputs (coils)", you can change that to one

on the 750 engine you can use a single dual outlet coil or use two single outlet coils, both set ups work
on a standard engine in the "Coil output" selection if using two coils you mark the coil output to two even though you still only use a single trigger at the crank
on my boards I have 4 wire cable from the trigger board so 5 volts power, earth and two trigger wires, if I am planning on using only one coil I cut one of the trigger wires
but if I Twist the crank to 270 degrees then I need a twin trigger board

Good luck
 
PVL coils are marked PVL. Can be obtained quite cheaply from Triumph parts suppliers. They use specific connectors to the leads.
I have a spare twin outlet coil. I should get around to fitting that to my SF2 which is still running the heavy Bosch coils.
Paul
 
redax5 said:
your coil is identical to the Nology coils I use but are most likely PVL if Keith sourced them out of Europe but I always thought the PVL coils had writing on them, never seen those coils without

that looks to me to be a Dual coil which is fine on a 750 due to the 360 degree configuration
but in your settings on the "Bike" page it specifies that you have two coils, which you do not
see selection box marked "number of outputs (coils)", you can change that to one

on the 750 engine you can use a single dual outlet coil or use two single outlet coils, both set ups work
on a standard engine in the "Coil output" selection if using two coils you mark the coil output to two even though you still only use a single trigger at the crank
on my boards I have 4 wire cable from the trigger board so 5 volts power, earth and two trigger wires, if I am planning on using only one coil I cut one of the trigger wires
but if I Twist the crank to 270 degrees then I need a twin trigger board

Good luck
Click to expand...
Thanks Redax,
Bike definitely ran much better today, it wasn't bad before but would stall if you didn't give it the occasional blip the throttle, thats sorted out now and ticksover perfectly at 800 rpm, it rides very well now, I'll edit the coil as you pointed out yesterday, your helphas been fantastic, thank you very much
Andy
 
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