The Three Dellortos
Hero member
so a bit of a tits endeavor ?
Sort of like a side stand kill switch for the hard of thinking
Fucking waste of time .
Sort of like a side stand kill switch for the hard of thinking
Fucking waste of time .
Laverda Jota 120 starter complete destruction
- Thread starter ltmt7
- Start date
Laverda SF
Hero member
Take it or Disregard it but Laverda back in 73 Hi-Lited this very Principle in their Wiring Diagram to Protect the Starter & prevent the Bike from Running off the Side Stand.
I've pointed it out & it's up to you.
By the way you Ground the Primary Low Current side of the Starter Solenoid directly to the Neutral SX on the bottom of the Tranny which is in Parallel to the Neutral Indicator Light and has nothing to do with the Neutral Light.
My belief with the problem of Starter Blow Ups stems from failure of the Peening Pins that hold the Backing Plate, making it Loose, which in turn hold the Dogs in the Spragg and if the Backing plate is not true and one accidentally hitting the Go Button at Hi-RPM will engage the Starter then POOF - So the Grounding the Starter Solenoid through the Neutral Switch makes sense - Inconvenience or Not.
Really, you would hold a stiff Cabled Laverda Clutch in for a 5 Minute Red Light rather then shifting in to Neutral. I still run the Original Clutch Cable - Not saying it didn't pull the Lever Pill off once and 90% of the time we reach down and pull the shift lever into Neutral - It's just the Nature of the Beast.
I've pointed it out & it's up to you.
By the way you Ground the Primary Low Current side of the Starter Solenoid directly to the Neutral SX on the bottom of the Tranny which is in Parallel to the Neutral Indicator Light and has nothing to do with the Neutral Light.
My belief with the problem of Starter Blow Ups stems from failure of the Peening Pins that hold the Backing Plate, making it Loose, which in turn hold the Dogs in the Spragg and if the Backing plate is not true and one accidentally hitting the Go Button at Hi-RPM will engage the Starter then POOF - So the Grounding the Starter Solenoid through the Neutral Switch makes sense - Inconvenience or Not.
Really, you would hold a stiff Cabled Laverda Clutch in for a 5 Minute Red Light rather then shifting in to Neutral. I still run the Original Clutch Cable - Not saying it didn't pull the Lever Pill off once and 90% of the time we reach down and pull the shift lever into Neutral - It's just the Nature of the Beast.
Simonr501
Hero member
- Location
- Lympne, Kent. UK
Most people say that the SJCE starter is/was the one for the Jota 120. Mine came with an old Bosch one which may well be original. My best guess is the factory did what was logical and used up the Bosch starters on the Jota 120 and when they ran out went over to the SJCE.mauricejota7604 said:
Hi
I looked at what the problem was the starter clutch.
The starter clutch was OK, but the three screws that
keep to be a plate in place had opened,
screws hit a gear and rotate it.
My Jota120 #8486# starter motor was SJCE.
Leo
https://picasaweb.google.com/ltmt43/LaverdaJota120StarterCompleteDestruction#5642677199964718402
https://picasaweb.google.com/ltmt43/LaverdaJota120StarterCompleteDestruction#5642677422755452674
I looked at what the problem was the starter clutch.
The starter clutch was OK, but the three screws that
keep to be a plate in place had opened,
screws hit a gear and rotate it.
My Jota120 #8486# starter motor was SJCE.
Leo
https://picasaweb.google.com/ltmt43/LaverdaJota120StarterCompleteDestruction#5642677199964718402
https://picasaweb.google.com/ltmt43/LaverdaJota120StarterCompleteDestruction#5642677422755452674
Dellortoman
Hero member
- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
Hi Leo
Laverda triple starter motor on Ebay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Laverda-Jota-Starter-Motor-/190567330838?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2c5eb2b416
Cheers,
Cam
Laverda triple starter motor on Ebay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Laverda-Jota-Starter-Motor-/190567330838?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2c5eb2b416
Cheers,
Cam
Hi Leo, sorry my post is too late to help, but you are 99.99% probably correct about the 3 screws. I have seen the results of this 3 times (including once whilst on the bike - I was on a motorway, the bike slowed for no reason and there was a whizzing sound, but the starter did not explode). There must be many more instances over the years. Keep em tight guys! Hag.
gtlsteve
Full member
- Location
- Blue Mountains Australia
Hi Markqld
I was thinking the starter motor was designed to run at set speed. What ever that is! ( say 600 rpm to kick it over) My brother an auto elec said on car starters when the solenoid stay's in the starter motor just implodes. Again no maintenance just like the sprag clutch.
So if it runs above rated speed this is over speed ( R1 talk rev limiter) .
When the sprag clutch is still turning ( engaged) and the bike motor running at say 6000rpm , well the starter was not built to do this as it just won't run at high speed for long periods on plain bearings ( brass bushes).
The thing will just fly to pieces as it was built in the 70's properly built by hand not like you get today . So quality after 30 years who no's. Older it gets the more it could happen. Worst case who wants to see a hole in there crank cases if it did self destruct.
Don't disagree with what been said as that is what's happened.
Never-less why can't Mr Sache/Witt etc have a feature in there nice electronic ignition that disables the starter button after say 1000 rpm and 5 second running, can't be that hard. Then you can start in gear when you stall at the lights.
...... :'(
(One for the propeller heads.)
steve
I was thinking the starter motor was designed to run at set speed. What ever that is! ( say 600 rpm to kick it over) My brother an auto elec said on car starters when the solenoid stay's in the starter motor just implodes. Again no maintenance just like the sprag clutch.
So if it runs above rated speed this is over speed ( R1 talk rev limiter) .
When the sprag clutch is still turning ( engaged) and the bike motor running at say 6000rpm , well the starter was not built to do this as it just won't run at high speed for long periods on plain bearings ( brass bushes).
The thing will just fly to pieces as it was built in the 70's properly built by hand not like you get today . So quality after 30 years who no's. Older it gets the more it could happen. Worst case who wants to see a hole in there crank cases if it did self destruct.
Don't disagree with what been said as that is what's happened.
Never-less why can't Mr Sache/Witt etc have a feature in there nice electronic ignition that disables the starter button after say 1000 rpm and 5 second running, can't be that hard. Then you can start in gear when you stall at the lights.
...... :'(
(One for the propeller heads.)
steve
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mcnicol
Hero member
- Location
- Safety Harbor, Florida, USA
I must have been really lucky with my original 3c, I was corner marshalling at the local club track (Lakeside for the Queenslanders) in the mid-'70s, when Laverdas were really rare. I left the bike unattended in the pit area, but when I got back it appeared that every single person who'd even seen the bike had twisted the throttle to see what happened. It was completely flooded. I flattened the battery trying to start it, and eventually enlisted 3 or 4 other people to push it a LONG way until it finally fired.
I stalled it at a stop sign on the way back, but when I tried the starter circuit was dead. I was able to bump start it (early HKZ owners got very good at that) and get home, but when I started looking to see what was wrong the starter relay points had fused solid. Not too hard to fix, and to my surprise there was no dmage to the starter.
So why didn't my starter motor just keep spinning and launch the motor into space?
Ken
I stalled it at a stop sign on the way back, but when I tried the starter circuit was dead. I was able to bump start it (early HKZ owners got very good at that) and get home, but when I started looking to see what was wrong the starter relay points had fused solid. Not too hard to fix, and to my surprise there was no dmage to the starter.
So why didn't my starter motor just keep spinning and launch the motor into space?
Ken
spaynenda
Senior member
- Location
- Prescott, Arizona
Saturday I returned from a short ride and stopped in front of the garage, shut off the engine and walked round to open the door. After removing my gloves, helmet & jacket, I re-mounted the bike, pressed the start button to start the engine...the driveway slopes up to the garage, so it's easier to ride it in...the engine fired, but the starter would not stop turning, no matter what! I hit the kill switch, turned off the ingnition etc, but no relief. Finally got it to stop by disconnecting the battery, which by that time was pretty run down anyway.
So is this a similar fault to markqld's, or is my relay the problem??
So is this a similar fault to markqld's, or is my relay the problem??
Simonr501
Hero member
- Location
- Lympne, Kent. UK
Just my take on it.
If a sprag clutch is in good condition then it will allow drive only in one direction, i.e. the starter motor is spinning faster than the engine, so it grips.
Once the engine is spinning faster than the starter then it shouldn't matter what the starter does - the clutch should just slip. You could sit there with the finger on the button for ages and no damage occurs.
No special lubricants should be used inside (ie EP Lubricants), these will stop the clutch driving.
The surfaces inside should be smooth and blemish free.
If a sprag clutch is in good condition then it will allow drive only in one direction, i.e. the starter motor is spinning faster than the engine, so it grips.
Once the engine is spinning faster than the starter then it shouldn't matter what the starter does - the clutch should just slip. You could sit there with the finger on the button for ages and no damage occurs.
No special lubricants should be used inside (ie EP Lubricants), these will stop the clutch driving.
The surfaces inside should be smooth and blemish free.
Agree Simon.
The Laverda sprag clutches give lots of warning before they self-destruct. Squealing, moaning or grinding noises are often disregarded by many owners, only to have a shambles on their hands after a couple of weeks. Serves them right imho....
piet
The Laverda sprag clutches give lots of warning before they self-destruct. Squealing, moaning or grinding noises are often disregarded by many owners, only to have a shambles on their hands after a couple of weeks. Serves them right imho....
piet
Laverda SF
Hero member
Sounds like your Starter Relay Arched & Froze, considering the Relay is Energized through the Key and the Starter Button (Perhaps Bosch SX Key Failure - Then to Ground through the Neutral SX - LOL - Unless a live wire shorted to the Primary Side of the Starter Relay); however, if the Starter did not initially disengage, I would check that the Backing Plate on the Sprag Clutch holding the Dog Pins aligned is not loose. On SF and 3C they have to be Tack Welded - Don't know about later models.
I got rid of my Bosch (Prince of Darkness) Ignition Key and use a Heavy Duty Toggle SX - Simple and Effective - Don't need a Key to Start my Laverda but I guarantee no Thief will find out how I start my Laverda.
You should behind that Fairing & the Green Glow of the Instrument Dash on a Cool Summer's Night, Cursing the Streets & HWY's - NICE
120/55 Watt Halogen on Relay with 65 Watt Fogger's on a separate SX.
Total Width 17 1/2 "
From the PIC the Rickman Bent Nosed 8000rpm Breganze Twin has been to Hell and Back with me on her.
What a Sweet Heart, I'll race any 750 SFC, KZ1000, including the Jota to the End of Our World - My advice is to Hold on Bro as I have a love for Pirelli's.