Laverda Triple engine blasting

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Dellortoman said:
Hydroflouric acid is kid stuff. Try using picric acid. It will certainly get rid of any engine grime, but you, your bike, and a large portion of your house will probably disappear too  :D
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When I was an undergrad at looniversity a very long time ago, I had a Chemistry professor who had a favourite story about picric acid. He was in the Navy, on an Australian destroyer, near the end of the war, when they ran into a Japanese bomber. The standard of Japanese weapons had degenerated as they were being progressively bombed and burned into the stone age, but they had managed to build some bombs filled with picric acid crystals. That stuff normally just explodes without warning, so the bombs were probably more dangerous to the Japanese than anyone else, but anyway they did manage to drop a bomb and it hit the funnel of the destroyer. But it didn't blow up. The bomb case disintegrated, and the whole boat (and crew) were bathed in picric acid crystals. Everything turned a totally indelible bright yellow :o 8).
When they got back to port they'd already started painting the ship and it was mostly grey, but all the crew stayed bright yellow for months. Everybody was duly sympathetic, and as Australians are famous for doing, nobody said anything about it to avoid possible embarrassment :P
And they didn't use it to clean their Laverdas because they didn't want to get any more on them (keeping thread on track here).

Ken
 
hi
lysergic acid  :)wont clean your engine but will make it look much nicer
neale
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Are you Tim in disguise?  :D :D

Not sure about all this stripping back to the bare metal  :o

One of the great things about an old bike is the patina of marks and stains of its life. My favourite old Jota had done 50K+ miles and was well and truly thrashed. I touched up a few bits of paint and gave the cases a scrub with Solvol, water & Fairy liquid. It looked really nice, but didn't look new (which it wasn't).  Not sure I would a "new" Jota.....kind of defeats the objective of having an old bike.

Pete
 
You may not have got it wrong  :o
I looked into it because I use quite a lot of wheel cleaner on some bikes that have had a hard winter life and after looking on the packaging I noted mine contains Hydrocloric acid but I know previous brands could have some pretty nasty side effects.

After searching, it appears Hyrdroflouric can be found in wheel cleaner (or maybe could have previously). http://detailingwiki.com/index.php5?title=Wheel_Cleaners

I for one, will take more care when using it (wheel cleaner, I think Ill pass on the Flouric version, I like my bones )  :D

Rob

Warning, Danger of Death (copied from the link above)
Wheel cleaners that are formulated with Hydrofluoric acid; that is a solution of hydrogen fluoride in water, it is corrosive, meaning it will have a detrimental (and sometimes unrecoverable effect on surfaces it?s applied too) and it is also highly poisonous. The application instructions usually state- ?apply, but do not allow product to remain on the surface for more than 30 seconds before removal with a strong stream of water?.


Skin contact with concentrated hydrofluoric acid or inhalation of its vapour has caused many serious injuries, even death. Concentrated solutions of hydrofluoric acid pass quickly through the skin and cause deep, painful burns. Dilute solutions also penetrate the skin, but it does not give the immediate burning sensation caused by the concentrated form of the acid, a user may tend to be less aware of the contact with the acid.


There are specific ordinance to enforce Hydrofluoric acid hazard spill control / exposure and treatment methods and specific materials, most of which are just not going to be in the enthusiast or even mobile detailer's toolkit, non-compliance can result in heavy penalties.


It also has the unique ability to dissolve almost all inorganic oxides. In the human body, hydrofluoric acid reacts with calcium and damages nerves, bone, and several organs including the heart and kidneys - Hydrofluoric acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Critics say the lack of knowledge about chemicals exposes a system where environmental regulators largely rely on companies that profit from industrial chemicals to sound alarms about their safety. Questions about potential effects on human health and the environment often aren't raised until years after a chemical is introduced to the marketplace.




Notes ?


Warning There is a thin line between effective cleaning and dangerous to use products; so before using any chemicals or solvents, carefully read all of the cautions and medical information on the products container and / or MSDS. Always follow all of the manufacturer?s recommendations. Ensure that you wear eye protection and acid-proof gloves; this is mandatory. No matter how safe an acidic product is advertised, never run the risk of it splashing in your eye or permeating your skin.

An MSDS for Hydroflouric acid
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/H3994.htm


 
Wow, this is turning into a chemistry lesson.

It is Ok to say this is toxic and so is that, but many things are toxic it just depends on the dose.

TCP has Phenol in it - I gargle with the stuff and stick it on cuts and grazes, hardly surprising as that is what most people use it for - an Antiseptic.
Bloody heck! The Nazis used that stuff to kill prisoners it is so toxic!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1 gram is enough to cause death.
Obviously the Phenol is diluted enough to be effective for killing bugs but not people.

So there you go.
If your not a chemist and you are not too sure - clean that engine by hand.

 
Robjota said:
I for one, will take more care when using it (wheel cleaner, I think Ill pass on the Flouric version, I like my bones )  :D

Rob
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Ironically, your bones are fine. It only eats flesh. The treatment is local wash with a calcium solution and an intravenous infusion of calcium.

Nasty, nasty burns but. And the warning is right, often the dilute stuff causes the most damage as people leave it longer before seeking help.
 
The endotoxin produced by the common bacterium Clostridium botulinum was once the most toxic substance known to mankind. Microgram quantities were known to cause rapid death.
Now they squirt it into peoples' lips and faces to make them look beautiful. That's what botox is.
"Toxicity" is relative. In the US cyanide in drinking water was tightly regulated by the EPA. It's very hard to get it all out of water. As water gets used more often by cities the cyanide level has been creeping up for decades. Under the Reagan administration, to get around the problem, the EPA simply increased the toxic concentration by a factor of 10. So Americans can now drink 10 times the level that was regarded as dangerous, it's officially safe now.

Ken
 
[/quote]

Ironically, your bones are fine. It only eats flesh. The treatment is local wash with a calcium solution and an intravenous infusion of calcium.

Nasty, nasty burns but. And the warning is right, often the dilute stuff causes the most damage as people leave it longer before seeking help.
[/quote]

Are you sure about that Davo? Maybe it was scaremongering from newspapers but a while ago I read that burned out cars were to be avoided because hydrofluoric acid was produced when the electrics melted and the acid then sat there looking like water. People were oblivious to it
and not realising they had been in contact with an acid went on their merry way. Some time later the acid started attacking the bones and at this point amputation was the only course of action to stop the damage. As I say, I got it from a newspaper but at the time I worked on a Glaxochem site which kept a certain amount of it and it was considered highly dangerous by cleverer people than me.
I dont know enough to mess with this type of chemical so I'll use a bit of gunk and cherish the patina. Regards Pat.
 
Truck Cleaner ( containing Hydroflouric Acid ) was the product used mixed 50/50 with water I would take all the advice mentioned about using such toxic substances .
Kind Regards
Tetley
 
3patC said:
Are you sure about that Davo?
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Well it is a couple of weeks since I had to deal with hydroflouric acid burns so perhaps I am not sure...

Calcium is the neutralising agent. It is damage to the flesh that causes the local clinical problems and the associated drop in "free" calcium - hypocalcaemia - that causes systemic problems

Suggested reading here for the doubters:-

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/773304-overview and http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/773304-treatment
 
It is excellent to discuss these toxins here on this forum, or anywhere. Issues around GRP products etc have also been discussed here. Our homes and workshops are places not to take safety for granted. Welding, soldering, painting, engine coolant, fork oil, all of it needs a careful approach, or "she won't be right, mate". Many of the things we are exposed to build up and affect us much later. We are constantly bombarded with toxins by producers to make their products more effective or cheaper. Lately here the dozens of weird named shit in common soap and skin products have been discussed, bloody poisonous shit a lot of it too.
 
"Suggested reading here for the doubters:-"

Thanks for that link Davo, newspapers aren't the best source of info but after reading your link I think I'll steer well clear of the stuff.
Regards Pat.
 
Tippie said:
It is excellent to discuss these toxins here on this forum, or anywhere. Issues around GRP products etc have also been discussed here. Our homes and workshops are places not to take safety for granted. Welding, soldering, painting, engine coolant, fork oil, all of it needs a careful approach, or "she won't be right, mate". Many of the things we are exposed to build up and affect us much later. We are constantly bombarded with toxins by producers to make their products more effective or cheaper. Lately here the dozens of weird named shit in common soap and skin products have been discussed, bloody poisonous shit a lot of it too.
Click to expand...

my approach the past 15 years or so is to buy blue nitrile gloves in signifcant quantities, they typically come in Kleenex type dispenser boxes of 100 pairs or so, and I keep a couple of boxes scattered around the garage. Slip on a pair anytime the hands are likely to get dirty in anything, the gloves are really cheap and disposeable, in a couple of hours session in the garage I might go through 15 pairs or more. It can be quite an eye opener working with some solvent and watching the blue nitrile goves turn yellow and shrivelling up, easy to strip off the ruined pair and throw on a new pair, but makes you think about what crap you would otherwise be absorbing into your body.

back in the 1970's when I was working in welding and mechanical shops, I now have memories of myself and coworkers routinely washing our bare hands in solvents that I now wouldn't touch without a respirator and heavy gloves, it is a wonder that more of us haven't died from accumulated toxins.....

Paul LeClair
 
Paul LeClair said:
Tippie said:
It is excellent to discuss these toxins here on this forum, or anywhere. Issues around GRP products etc have also been discussed here. Our homes and workshops are places not to take safety for granted. Welding, soldering, painting, engine coolant, fork oil, all of it needs a careful approach, or "she won't be right, mate". Many of the things we are exposed to build up and affect us much later. We are constantly bombarded with toxins by producers to make their products more effective or cheaper. Lately here the dozens of weird named shit in common soap and skin products have been discussed, bloody poisonous shit a lot of it too.
Click to expand...

my approach the past 15 years or so is to buy blue nitrile gloves in signifcant quantities, they typically come in Kleenex type dispenser boxes of 100 pairs or so, and I keep a couple of boxes scattered around the garage. Slip on a pair anytime the hands are likely to get dirty in anything, the gloves are really cheap and disposeable, in a couple of hours session in the garage I might go through 15 pairs or more. It can be quite an eye opener working with some solvent and watching the blue nitrile goves turn yellow and shrivelling up, easy to strip off the ruined pair and throw on a new pair, but makes you think about what crap you would otherwise be absorbing into your body.

back in the 1970's when I was working in welding and mechanical shops, I now have memories of myself and coworkers routinely washing our bare hands in solvents that I now wouldn't touch without a respirator and heavy gloves, it is a wonder that more of us haven't died from accumulated toxins.....

Paul LeClair
Click to expand...

Ha, I did that too, Genklene was the product, hands came out all dry, clean and powdery, must have been mental, that and assisting a welder while we routinely cut and welded Zinc plated gratings.  No one told me until after I'd been off sick for 3 days ! ::)

Older and wiser, springs to mind..

Rob
 
I was looking at this just today. The days when they worked all day with their hands in grease and solvents, pipe in mouth, beer every lunchtime. Didn't do them any harm... mind you, they are probably all dead from dermititis, lung cancer, liver failure  :'(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-ABelgFdjA&feature=related 

Also note no torque wrenches....... wish I had thought of that when I set mine to the wrong value as per the stupid manual misprint and pulled the cam carrier stud out of my RGS last week  ...  >:(
 
Just this weekend I surprised myself,
I was cleaning my brake back-plates ready for re-fitting and was using std Brake cleaner and not a lot was happening to some of the stubborn stains etc, so just picked up a handy cleaning product that I used to dislike because the salesman was a dick, (The shop foreman liked it so I used to buy it in small quantities for him) It was just handy so I tried it!  AMAZED is not the word, I have NEVER used anything like it!  It is supposed to be environmentally friendly, it is water soluble and I have no idea what is in it as there is nothing on the pack that says anything about what it's made of!  But the dirt honestly just falls off with the liquid, it is incredible!  "Procar"  "Diadeem Allesreiniger" is it's name and it is well worth investigating!  and it didn't feel like anything but soapy water on my hands!!  Strange stuff but by Christ it works!

Hope you get to try it!

Julian
 
julian said:
and it didn't feel like anything but soapy water on my hands!!  
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That is just what caustic soda feels like, at first :D

Translation from the Dutch :-

Tiara All Purpose Cleaner
Excellent interior cleaner. Removes stains from upholstery. Broad application.
 
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