Looking for a Zane 750

as long as these shitheaps atrocities keep rolling through the door, I've got a job!

Exactly why I don't get why you are constantly hang these bikes out as handgrenades. It would be - business-wise and also in respect of the owners of such bikes - much better to point to the problems but offer help through OCT instead of banging permanently on the issues, Piet.

And BTW: I don't use my Formula more than he uses his VFR. Still the bike causes more issues than mine, believe it or not. When it runs, it's a great bike. the issues are minor but still existing. It's crap though working on it. I tried once to just sync the carbs. 2 hours of taking part off the bike later, I could see the carbs but not really reach down to them to get the sync tester on. At that point I decided I give up, mounted everything back in place and asked him to bring it to a Honda dealer for carb works. They charged him more than 1.000€ just to replace the gaskets and sync the carbs. I fully understand why.
 
Exactly why I don't get why you are constantly hang these bikes out as handgrenades. It would be - business-wise and also in respect of the owners of such bikes - much better to point to the problems but offer help through OCT instead of banging permanently on the issues, Piet.

Personally, I don't believe in bullshitting my customers, or anybody else for that matter, ie, I provide them facts when they inquire about buying these bikes. I tell them straight out what they're letting themselves in to, up to them alone to decide if it's worth it. What do I gain by encouraging somebody to buy such a bike and invest "an additional small amount" to "put things right" and it turns out to be "a rather considerable amount", far more than the bikes' market value? After a year, it's another "small investment" and another, and another. You know full well how disastrous these bikes are, even when the major issues have been attended to. There's the paint quality of the wheels with the accompanying corrosion, quality of rubber bits that deteriorate with alarming regularity, lousy lighting equipement, just to name a few. You will again argue all this can be attended to... of course, but you really shouldn't need to! Not everybody is prepared to sink as much cash into their bike/s as you and I. Other bikes of the same era and similar pricing played in a vastly superior league. There's a reason these bikes did not sell in great numbers, the motorcycling public isn't entirely dumb.

Quite OK if a 40-year old bike has loads of issues imho, this can be expected. But bikes that were troublesome while standing on the showroom floor? No thanks. Most other marques managed to get their products through the warranty period without too many hassles, Of course, there were a couple of notable exceptions, but, on a whole, IMoLa S.p.A. couldn't hold a candle to their competitors. The Zane factory should never have thrown such an under-developed and shoddily-made product on the market.

Please note that I was not involved in sales of these bikes when new. My experience with them at that time was limited to an extended evaluation ride on the first 650 Sport prototype that came to Germany, seeing the first UK 650 crash in front of me in Wales due to a cracked handlebar clamp and a ride around Zane and the Dolomite foothills on a pre-production 750 Sport. The 650 didn't last a week in the hands of the Moto Witt staff (all experienced Laverda riders), the partner machine that Roger rode in Italy didn't make it out of Zane due to overheating. While not having ridden as many miIes as you Lothar, I have certainly ridden many more Zane products, nearly every single model. I became deeply involved long after issues arose and have helped Roger develop cures and work-arounds to keep these things running. We both see it more as a technical challenge than a source of income. :rolleyes: Sure, it throws off a few bob, but the effort often simply isn't justified.

I have to admit, these engines are not to my taste, which does not mean I don't give them my full attention when working on them. From a 650/750 4-stroke twin I'd expect stump-pulling low-down torque, not an engine behaving more like a 250 2-stroke twin. It's impossible to trundle through town below 3500 rpm due to lack of flywheel and miserable fuel management. Reliable sources reported Zane had evaluated a Yamaha TRX 850, why Zane didn't take more notice of it is beyond me. Yes, the TRX was quickly demoted by the up-coming litre bikes such as the Honda VTR and Suzuki TL models, the Lav didn't even stand a chance.

Sure, they're fun when fully sorted, but it is neither easy nor cheap getting there. For every bike still running, a dozen have been broken and flogged off in bits because an owner has surrendered. If somebody thinks he/she's up to the task willing to pay, OK by me.

piet
 
Piet dumb question here - did you write something about what you do to the engines if the crank “ goes “ - if someone wanted to get the work done is it a question of sending the whole engine ? to OCT
 
Piet, if I read old tests of the breganze bikes, they typically never won a first place and the problems were multiple, too. Vibration related cracks, harsh shifting, stress cracks in the down-tube, first series triples with to small forks and to big, underperforming drum brakes, head cracks almost everywhere, wrong bearings in the 1200 engines I believe and many more issues. You were at a dealership when these bikes were still new - did they all just come in for service only? I doubt...

I understand that Breganze Laverda did fix them more generously and did develop the bike further. But see what happened when the money dried out? the same as with Zane bikes, where money was tight from the beginning... Oh - and I had to repaing my bikes rims, too. I mean the one from the Jota... (before I went to the GSX-R-Rims). Why are so many Breganze Laverdas not in original state anymore (yours included)? Because they were all perfect, out developed and lightyears ahead of the competition?

The Dell'Ortos f.e. need serious service every 20.000 - 30.000km. No bad word about this from your side. Their linkage is more than fragil and easy to bent just by putting the carbs back onto the bike. Has that been fixed in 15 years of triple production ever? Not that I know... But this is well accepted, just like any other shortcoming of the bikes (weak ignition, that even demands for an aftermarket solution to be fixed).

My personal point of view: There is a fine line between telling people about issues or putting your personal animosity into this. It feels much more like you are actually hating these bikes and want them to be completely wiped off the planet rather than teaching people about the shortcomings and what needs to be done to fix them (see Sidney's suggestion).

Regarding spendings...:

Let's compare a triple and a Zane. A well fixed triple in almost original state is meanwhile 10.000€ and above in Germany. It rides like crap compared to a modern bike but sounds nice. what you get is a bike that demands a lot of skills from the rider, needs a lot of servicing to keep it running and regularly money thrown at it.

For that 10.000€, you can buy a cheap 750 S for around 3.000€, put 4.000€ into the engine to get it to Formula 2000 specs and fix all engine related issues. Spend another 1.000 on the electrics, overhaul the suspension, fix the tire painting and what you get is a bike that still outperforms many modern bikes (just no ABS and other modern gimicks).

I agree that frustration is the gap between expectation and fulfillment. So - if someone thinks, you can buy the bike and it will last like a Honda - better go and buy a Honda.

If they are willing to spend the money and get a bike that when fixed is much more fun than many other bikes I have ridden and will always be something special - go and ride a well fixed Zane. If you like it (and you most probably will) - go and invest the money into a Zane. Will you ever get your money back? Not in cash, but in fun.
 
Piet dumb question here - did you write something about what you do to the engines if the crank “ goes “ - if someone wanted to get the work done is it a question of sending the whole engine ? to OCT
Yes... and no. I won't go into it any further here, the repair process has cost OCT many hours and mucho pesos to develope.

We require the crank only. After disassembly and careful viewing/measuring, a quote is issued.

piet
 
Lothar,

Despite all their shortcomings, mainly due to the era in which they were built, the Breganze models generally provided sterling service for many 10000km before getting hacked into, rebuilt into some sort of sporting monstrosity or simply wheeled to the back of the shed, to be forgotten for 3 decades. Yes, they were enthusiasts' bikes, not meant for everybody. You had to seriously want one to get along with it, akin to several other iconic bikes of the time that also had their own, individual quirks. This was also part of the marketing ploy... "Bikes for REAL men"

Breganze bikes were built from what was top-line equipment AT THE TIME. It is no fault of the Laverda factory that owners were not able remove their carbs without bending them, or even balance them properly. The triples were actually one of the first, if not THE first production model to wear the new-at-the-time Dellorto PHB/PHF carbs. These became benchmarks that provided the entire italian bike industry with reliable, usable and cheap carbs for 2½ decades. No, they were not meant to last forever... The first triples came with drums because there was not yet an italian manufacturer able to produce a usable disc brake. Laverda jumped at the chance to fit Brembo discs as soon as they became available. Lighting and electrical acessories belonged to the finest you could buy AT THE TIME. The triples were fitted with a contact-less electronic ignition while the rest of the world still fitted archaic points systems. So this turned out not to be the best system the world had ever seen, but it was a strong selling point that put Laverda at the head of the pack AT THE TIME. Fast-forward a couple of years, "Worlds Fastest Production Bike" isn't a title any of the Zane bikes would have achieved, sorry. An out-of-the-box, bog-stock Honda CBR600 could run circles around a 750 Formula, AT THE TIME. A Formula may have been able to eat a Ducati 750S for breakfast, but the 900S was already a different picture. Let alone a jap multi with a 30hp advantage.

Comparing Breganze with Zane is apples/pears, there may be only a handfull of Zane bikes that have managed more than 20-30000km without any major issues. In comparison, I still open Breganze engines with their ORIGINAL crankcase sealing compound in place. Of course they're worn out, they have every right to be, after 50-odd years at the hands of careless and reckless youngsters, that we once were. But, at least most of them managed to trip the odometer at least once.

Come back in 30 years with an un-opened Zane engine and we'll have a beer over it.

piet
 
Piet,

you have your experience, I have mine. I don't see the Breganze bikes anymore as reliable bikes. How could I, with 5 overhauls of 4 engines, all below 50.000km, please?

I see the Forum full of problems with Breganze bikes. I see lot's of engines that need repair at OCT and other dealers (mine included) with partly waiting times of years (with the 6 years for the 1000 SFC engine being an exception for sure; but also the 750 took 2 years or more). Not sure when my Jota engine will be ready for reasons I do not want to publicly discuss. So - waiting again 2-3 years is well in sight... :confused: so - please forgive me when I am not the biggest fan of the myth of "Breganze bikes being reliable" anymore... I have seen to many with major issues. And I am not even working on them for business...

That you claim Breganze bikes were built with the best (italien) components available and at the same time you ignore the fact that the Zanes had Brembo, Marchesini, Paioli, Weber Marelli etc. etc. all around tells me something, too... The whole Zane bikes are built out of the best components available at that time, especially the Formulas which got even better components. Components, that Ducati did not even give to their 750 SS. They had to throw in the 900 SS into the comparison to be HALF WAY compatible... (engine power, components etc.). They won just by some points due to harsh shifting (bike wasn't prepared well...), the shagging and rough running below 3.000 (WM-issue all italien bikes have...) etc., though the Laverda brakes f.e. were named as: "Ducati should take a note of the part numbers Laverda used." I own that bike from the report as you may know. It is meanwhile sorted very well thanks to OCT.

They are just not put together with the necessary attention and quality as they should, that's true. But how long do you think prices for Laverdas will rise? The people purchasing one are getting more and more rare. We will soon hit a point where no investment you do to ANY Laverda will pay off... But that's not different to other bikes:

My son rides a Ducati Monster 695. Up to 3.000, it is crap to ride. It handles Ok, brakes are OK etc. etc. but not in any way better than the 750 Formula. The Formula has equal weight (both roughly 186kg) but has more than 20 HP and roughly 25 Nm more to offer. And it's design is 10 years older... When we bought the Bike, it had some issues which were fixed. It needed new belts though (500€) and with some other cost, it came in at roughly 4.000€. (13.000km done in 13 years on two owners). meanwhile, it got new tires and it soon will need new brake pads and - oh, again... belts, oil, etc. etc. another 1.000€ waiting to be spent (besides the 500 for the new tires and another oil exchange) . All that in 7.000km/1 year of riding.

Tell me something about spending money on bikes...
 
Hi all
I'm now sorted with a bike.
Let the fun begin. Roll on a bit of warm dry weather.

Im on the lookout for a pair of aftermarket exhaust cans if anyone knows of any for sale. Preferably road pipes with the eprom to suit
Thanks
 
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