Modern Petrol

  • Thread starter Thread starter lemonjelly
  • Start date Start date
Grant said:
Well there is a big lawsuit in the US currently with the case of the shrinking Ducati fuel tanks due to the much higher ethanol content. Seems like Ducati didn't do their homework well enough.
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and neither did MV Agusta as their 2010 tanks are showing signs of deterioration too

joe
 
Rusty Spokes said:
Once NG becomes reality for trucking and modern automobiles, the price per barrel of crude will drop like a rock and there will be plenty of gasoline for the "older fleet" of vehicles on the road.

Then we may have some quality fuel for our Laverdas. We can only hope.
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Will not happen, automobiles are only responsible for a small volume of the daily worldwide oil consumption
cannot see the price of oil going down too much in the future, not in my lifetime anyway, what's left of it

Red


 
redax5 said:
Rusty Spokes said:
Once NG becomes reality for trucking and modern automobiles, the price per barrel of crude will drop like a rock and there will be plenty of gasoline for the "older fleet" of vehicles on the road.

Then we may have some quality fuel for our Laverdas. We can only hope.
Click to expand...

Will not happen, automobiles are only responsible for a small volume of the daily worldwide oil consumption
cannot see the price of oil going down too much in the future, not in my lifetime anyway, what's left of it

Red
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  Cheer up Red.

    Keith
 
I know first hand what it does to GRP tanks. Filled the B52 with premium for the 1000 bikes at Mallory this year (Norvil GRP tank), it went all soft and wobbly, started leaking within hours.  
I am one of many in the C.R.M.C. and the B.H.R. who have lost tanks due to modern fuel. Many have cut out the base and hidden a small steel tank underneath.

The tank was lined with petseal that pealed of inside the tank allowing the ethanol to dissolve the resin. A guy we met with a Norvil Commando had this problem, his engine seised when out for a ride, the resin burnt inside the engine and gummed up the top end. He likened it to the burnt residue you get in an oven when it's not cleaned. Said it took a lump hammer to get the valves out!!!

Go to C.R.M.C. and B.H.R. forums and search modern fuels, lots more about the problems there.

Also Spike at 'Ragged Edge Racing' was running tests on the tank sealants to find out what works, he should have more info by now.

Maitland
 
This is what I was told Maitland a bad state of affairs needs more publicity out there about it I feel.

Shaun
 
lemonjelly said:
I think you may find the members split on that one why have a Laverda at all Mark "outdated bit of crap" and go and get a Busa.

Shaun

Anyway back to thread re modern petrol please.
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I had a Busa..No good..smile factor comes in at approx 145 mph..That's jail territory ! The Jota..well we all know they are gorgeous from standing still...
joe
 
redax5 said:
Rusty Spokes said:
Once NG becomes reality for trucking and modern automobiles, the price per barrel of crude will drop like a rock and there will be plenty of gasoline for the "older fleet" of vehicles on the road.

Then we may have some quality fuel for our Laverdas. We can only hope.
Click to expand...

Will not happen, automobiles are only responsible for a small volume of the daily worldwide oil consumption
cannot see the price of oil going down too much in the future, not in my lifetime anyway, what's left of it

Red
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Over the road diesel consume the biggest percentage of imported oil, second to consumer automobiles. Converting the fleet to NG would be the most effective way to reduce import of Arab crude, and the atmosphere would be much cleaner too.

Easy to do. Much easier than converting from whale oil to electric lamps.
 
As I'm about to produce my first Carbon Fibre tank for the Motodd, molds finally finished!!, I'm not sure what I should use as the resin. My first thoughts is to use Epoxy because of it's crystal clear properties for that slick look Carbon finish, and then use a liner for the fuel issues. I've been recommended to use Vinylester instead as it's suppose to be fuel resistant but doesn't have the clarity of epoxy. slightly cloudy but still clear.
I don't have enough epoxy to complete 1 tank and need to buy enough resin to complete 2 tanks so I need to decide which is the best way to go.?????
As one tank is for you Red, what would you prefer or thoughts on the matter??
As for the SFC, I never leave fuel in the system. As soon as I park it up I drain the tank and carbs. So far the glassfibre tank has not shown any signs of fuel degradation. I'm not sure what our fuel contains in WA but my bikes run pretty good on premium U/L, 98octane when available if not usually 95.
 
Rob, I assume you want to leave it unpainted? Would it work to coat the tankl with a clear lacquer? That way you could use the less clear resin. Haze can be a surface effect (from my plastics experience) so maybe a test sample in vinyl ester with a lacquer before committing?
It sounds like these tank sealants are not effective in the long run with modern aggressive additives in fuel. All my tanks are coated with Tank Cure but I don't know how that will stand up in the long run.
 
How long has this crap been going on,the bottom of the fibreglass tank on my Pantah melted must be more than 5 years ago.Looking for a replacement the makers said that they now use a product that was not affected.!8 months ago I see one of these new tanks with a brand new paint job needing sealing,it had started leaking so whatever the new product was didnt work.My Pantah now has a metal tank,maybe someone needs to do some difinitive testing with differant sealers in both metal and glass and pass out the right answer.
 
That's a good idea Grant. I can probably get a small amount of Vinylester from a local boat builder to try out. I intend to finish the tank with a clear acrylic or two pac anyway.
I did see a sample of carbon fibre/vinylester at the shop I buy all my materials from and didn't think it looked all that bad but the epoxy finish is so much more crystal clear.
If tank liners are suffering from fuel issues maybe I should go with vinylester to be on the safe side. Having had to deal with a leaking ally tank for the last 25 years I'm well over it.
 
Hey Rob,
You are doing stuff that I have no idea of so whatever you think is a good thing, its fine by me.
If it cannot be hit or welded then no use asking me.

Can I have 2 tanks please. ?
I'll stump up for the second one.

Tchau
Red
 
Well, that puts both of you well above me.

I am only good at hitting things. :(
 
Hey Red,
think I need do some research on some of these tank liners. Couldn't imagine a worst senario than having some lining turn to glook and fouling carbs etc, then having to remove it somehow from the tank. One reason I never lined my ally tank. Maybe Vinyl ester is the way to go. Been trying to source 5 litres of epoxy, enough to do 2 tanks but being a dangerous goods, courier companys want a fortune to deliver to Walpole so might have to wait till the New Year and a trip to Perth. The molds are waxed and ready to go so really keen to lay-up the Carbon fiber to see the end result. Exciting times and learning curve!!!!
Also need to source more Carbon cloth  as I've worked out I'll need about 4m2 to do 1 tank so only have enough for 1 at the moment. If you want 2 tanks I better double my next order then.
You haven't got another motodd frame stashed in that container then have you?? :D
Anyway, check out the molds, just waiting for some sexy layers of Carbon Fiber

PC140043.jpg
 
only have the one Mk 3 Motodd frame in that container.
Which we will be loading in 3 weeks time.
But what I do have at home is a frame jig, well its my mates but he is not using it.
Plus I have a MIG and a TIG welder.
must be a plan hatching there somewhere one would think



 
Hey Rob,

will put my hand up for one of your tanks as well as Red's container does have another frame in it, just happens to have the rest of the bike already attached.

There is a fiberglass expert here in Sydney (Brett Rosenthal) and he's treated a number of tanks with a clear internal liner, using his own secret mixture, had him seal the Spaceframe tank after it sprung a leak on one of the seams. Has been holding up well so would be likely to get him to do the Carbon Fiber tank as well.

Cheers Crispin
 
So, just to clarify Crispen, you have a Motodd in Reds container that needs a tank? Just saying as my tank is fitted to the motodd frame like a glove so it won't fit any other frame.
My original plan was to lay up the Carbon with epoxy and use a tank liner, now I'm concidering using Vinyl Ester resin due to it's chemical resistance properties. I can probably get a small amount locally so will do a test piece and compare it with the epoxy. I kinda like the idea of not using a liner.
I started this project cause my motodd needed a new tank, who'd thought I'd be suddenly inundated with orders :o I guess I better increase my order to 12 metres of cloth then!!
It's been a fun project so far.
 
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