Modern Petrol

  • Thread starter Thread starter lemonjelly
  • Start date Start date
:D  :D  :D

Just one question.
Maybe Phil can verify, are you sure all the Motodd frames you will be making tanks for have exactly the same dimensions?
I know there are mk1, 2, 3 etc versions.
Just asking in case a LOT of effort is spent and it doesn't bloody fit.
 
Grant said:
:D  :D  :D

Just one question.
Maybe Phil can verify, are you sure all the Motodd frames you will be making tanks for have exactly the same dimensions?
I know there are mk1, 2, 3 etc versions.
Just asking in case a LOT of effort is spent and it doesn't bloody fit.
Click to expand...

Very good question Grant...

Phil any difference in the Mk1 and Mk3 from tank fitting perspective?

Cheers Crispin
 
Rob, didn't you make a test mule, or was it incorporated into the moulds?
If it is still around maybe you could send it over to Red and Crispin for a test fit first.
 
That did cross my mind once!! Red's is a MK3 so worries there. The bottom could be modified to fit MK1 & 2 if need be. When I started it I never thought I'd make more than one.
 
Hey Crispen, what I could do is send you a fibre glass base to see how it fits the frame. If it needs altering you could cut out or add to using carboard and send it back then I can make a new base pattern and mold.
 
OK the subject line way back there got me.. ::)

My Ducati fell victim to the ethanol 2 years running; now I use Seafoam, so far so good. The RGS same thing. Startron makes a good stabilizer also.

Frank
 
        "line them with kebab meat,works for beer"

Like me, my bikes are vegitarian :D

So Crispen, what is it, MK1 or 2 ?????

      "Rob, didn't you make a test mule, or was it incorporated into the moulds?"
Grant, the test mule was the plug that I made the molds from. Unfortunetly it suffered some damage when releasing the molds and being made from MDF and body filler, weights a ton.
Here is a couple of shots of the plug before laying up the molds. Don't look like that anymore!!

PC020039.jpg


PC020041.jpg



 
Ethanol in fuel is a nightmare for the marine industry too, as many sppedboats have inbuilt fibreglass tanks. Most outboard manufacturers haven't changed their engnies for it either. My new (well 2 years) Yamaha clearly states in it's manual not to use any fuel with any ethanol at all.

Not sure about the platic outboard tanks though.
 
Hey Rob,
I can organise kits of 'straight' Ciba Geigi resin for the CF work, Grant is correct most of the Polyamide cured resins are not too UV stable and tend to discolour (yellow off) under sunlight or long term Fluro's, so plan of dropping a topcoat of polyurethane over the tanks. For me Polyesters are equally at risk, mainly from embrittlement though.

The kits will have to come from Brisbane, however the first tank i did with them was over 15yrs ago, surprisingly still good despite some sudden resculpturing work.
As far as 'special' blends go, i'm not sure what could be blended in to improve the chemical resistance of the resin, for me unadulterated resin is the key (save for a 'splash' of Methyl Ethel Keytone to improve the flexural nature of the material).

I'll see if I can get my old GM to cure some material off, drop it in a bottle of Ethanol/fuel and see if we have any signs of deterioration.

Cheers

Peter
 
Beautiful work Rob.

My brother in law is making carbon fibre kit for Ducatis here in Perth and has lots of experience with resins and fuel mixes as he also makes and flies model planes. I'll give him a shout and see what he thinks.
 
Hi Peter, plan was to top coat with either acrylic laquer or 2 pac urethane. I did a sample piece yesterday with West System Epoxy and was impessed with the finish after delaminating it, so I'm feeling more comfortable about getting a good finish. You seem to know what your talking about so any input would be greatfully received. :D
Would it be possible to do the 1st layer in epoxy, then once set, lay the subsequent layers using vinyl ester? With the left over resin I mixed yesterday I use up by laying fiberglass chopstrand on the polyester mold and looking at it this morning, has bonded rather well. I hope to get a sample of vinylester tomorrow for a top layer comparison.
Reading about the properties of epoxy, vinylester and polyester, it seems the epoxy and vinylester have similar properties and weighing up the pros and cons vinylester is the prefered choice at the moment mainly cause of tthe fuel issues.

Hi Davo, I would love to tap his brains :D This is a big learning curve for me. Plugs/patterns are easy, fiberglassing, sort of know what I'm doing but haven't done enough to be really good at it, and Carbon Fibre is new territory for me!!. I'm getting excited though!!. Looks like I'll need to do a Perth trip to buy materials, that's the bugger about living in paradise :D

Cheers
 
Rob, give me a yell before you come up and I will organise a visit and he can show you what he is doing. I know he is away soon after Christmas and into the new year at a competition but after that should be fine. He is usually pretty happy to help, even though he is into Ducatis. :D
 
Hmmm, the news does not appear to be good on alcohol/petrol blends. This from my BIL:-

" Wanted to build a Fibre glass /  carbon fuel tank for my Pulse jets which run on Alcohol based fuel such as Methanol. 
I gather Ethanol is from the same family of Alcohol based fuels.
(made from Sugar cane - Methylated spirits -  95% Ethanol from QLD + %5 stuff to make you throw up if consumed.) 
Spoke to Charlie Irwin at Fibreglass resin sales in Kew st Kewdale and there is not a resin available that is not affected by methanol.
Guess the ethanol would also degrade the Resin. Apparently it goes like jelly and is dissolved by methanol, guess the same problem with Ethanol."
 
I think the reactivity of Methanol and Ethanol are slightly different so we cannot assume identical attack on fibreglass resins.

Is it possible to ceramic coat the inside of a fuel tank, especially if not metal?
A ceramic coating would resist alcohol attack, just like a glass bottle is not affected by booze.
 
I'm planning on dropping in to the place that does low friction coatings near me today. They do titanium nitride coating for modern motocross bike stanchions, not much point (and bloody expensive) on Cerianis or Marzocchis with no Teflon bushings. But I'm going to ask them if they feel tungsten disulphide inside the sliders would be worth the trouble, since I have the forks apart waiting for input on piston bands from Racetech.

And while I'm at it, since they're material science engineers, I'll ask if they know anything about coatings for fuel tanks. They do all sorts of classified work for the military so they do experience things you can't read about in an engineering department library. Gotta be careful they don't tell me then have to shoot me :o :D

Ken
 
                                                      "Apparently it goes like jelly and is dissolved by methanol, guess the same problem with Ethanol."

There must be quite a few classic bikes with fiberglass tanks, racing and running on methanol,???
Does your BIL build tanks for Ducatis?
 
Not 100% sure what parts he has built for Ducks. I think, and this is only assumption on my part, that the biggest problem would be fuel sitting for any length of time in a tank. Most racing and drag bikes would have the fuel removed between events and not have the constant exposure that road gear gets.

Not a huge amount of difference between Methanol (CH3-OH) and Ethanol (CH3-CH2-OH) with just the methylene molecule in the middle. Only difference in the human is that methanol is toxic and ethanol is less toxic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top